Do animated undead add to EL?

[Dracorat]

I should quit now while Im not too far behind.

I don't usually throw such odd rules snafus out there, but this is #3 in the same day.

The point, however, is simply this: The rules specifically call out that any summoned/conjured/created creature as from a spell and tied to an encounter is part of the CR of the calling/summoning/creating caster. Because their repoirtoire of spells accounts for the fact they can do this, and they do it, doesn't mean you get extra exp from it.

Which is specifically what was asked and is specifically answered in the RAW.

Now, deciding not to follow that is fine, but it certainly makes me twitch when I think about it.

On the other hand, my previous suggestion about rewarding extra exp for the killing of the cleric based on special preparation for the battle is covered, in the ad-hoc exp section.

 

[Dracorat]

The point is, if the additional creature's presence doesn't stem from a diminishing of the main foe's abilities (like costing him a spell, feat, etc), they are worth their own XP.

Oh but it does. He had to cast the appropriate animate spell.

 

[Dracorat]

OK I am reading in between the lines then. You are asking what if they create them well ahead of time and then rest in between so they are fully ready to go.

Yes, in that case, I would consider the undead to just be "another minion" and worth their exp. I was under the impression we were talking about a cleric knowing you were coming and well ahead of battle (but on the same day) casting some animate undeads.

 

[Nail]

Unless you're using the rule in the Book of Traps, Challenges, and Puzzles, which specifically states that the EL of an encounter does not increase simply because the enemies have favorable positions - instead one should give 15-25% more XP.

I'm not sure using a source other than the DMG is really necessary here. The rules for EL (and the subsequent additional XP that would indicate) are fairly clear in the DMG. (See p 39, mid-way down the first column) Moreover, the book you cite simply repeats the information given on p. 39 of the DMG.

A Clr 5 that has a favorable starting position and has ample preparations should be > EL 5. If the EL is greater, then the XP awarded is greater.

"Adjust the XP award and the EL depending on how greatly circumstances change the encounter's difficulty."

I'll note here that if the PCs are the ones making the encounter difficult (example: by not being careful), the EL doesn't rise, nor do the PCs gain more XP.

 

[Nail]

The point, however, is simply this: The rules specifically call out that any summoned/conjured/created creature as from a spell and tied to an encounter is part of the CR of the calling/summoning/creating caster.

You sure about that last bit?

The text you're looking for is on p. 37 of the DMG.

If we followed this too slavishly, then no one would ever get XP for defeating a golem....since these are always magically created by someone.

 

[Dracorat]

Keep reading Nail =) I cleared up the issue after the post you cited =)

And yes, I'm sure. It doesn't say created, as you point out, but the longer examples given do help to clarify the issue.

However, permanent duration creatures, like I point out later, are more like minions.

 

[Nail]

...I cleared up the issue ....

It doesn't say created, as you point out, but the longer examples given do help to clarify the issue.

They do? Which "longer example"?

 

[Dracorat]

DMG p.37

---
Do not aware XP for creatures that enemies summon or otherwise add to their forces with magic powers. An enemy's ability to summon or add these creatures is part of the enemy's CR already. (You don't give PCs more XP if a drow casts unholy blight on them, so don't give them more XP if she casts summon monster IV instead.)
---

That is the longer example. =)

 

[Dracorat]

... and before you bring it up, spells with a duration vs. spells with instantaneous duration are not a part of distinction in the example.

However, this is a case where reason would dictate. If the cleric rests and the undead stick around, then at that time, I would deem those undead as separate entities to the fight. - As a DM.

 

[Sejs]

The yardstick generally stands at 'did the extra help cost the enemy any resources to acquire?' If yes, then it doesn't add to the EL/CR/Whatever. If it's essentially a freebie (didn't functionally cost them anything) then calculate it as normal.