Do archfiends grant spells in your campaigns? And if so how?

[arwink]

I elevated a few of the archfiends to god status, the rest belong to the rank and file of demonic entities that serve the evil gods. The rank and file can grant spells, but their spellcasting followers are Adepts rather than true clerics.

The same can be said of cults/orders that form around powerful celestial beings.

 

[diaglo]

The same can be said of cults/orders that form around powerful celestial beings.

this sounds almost like Scarred Lands like.

maybe you should go ask Nighttfall about some suggestions for this system.

 

[arwink]

this sounds almost like Scarred Lands like.

maybe you should go ask Nighttfall about some suggestions for this system.

It's actually adapted from the Small Gods rules that were included in the Legends and Lairs Mastercraft Anthology.

For the most part, it doesn't get used a lot (for the moment, there is a rogue divinity loose out there whose slowly starting to form new cults). The most important part, for me, was being able to have a tangible conceptual difference between the adept and the cleric. One follows gods, the other just follows really powerful critters.

 

[Arnwyn]

A Planescape product from 2E (Faces of Evil: The Fiend IIRC) had the answer to this that I still like to use today:

Archfiends themselves can't grant spells per se. However, they make a deal with an evil god (usually one of compatible alignment), wherein the Archfiend does favors for that god (or that god's church) such as sending minions to aid in that god's endeavors, etc. and in return that god grants spells to those who pray to the Archfiend. Note that in this setup, the person praying to the Archfiend has no idea the spells are coming from someone other than said Archfiend.

This is exactly what I use for my campaign as well (from the same source).

 

[Voadam]

I prefer the Ravenloft set up, where clerics gain power but there is no contact with deities and no direct proof they are getting it from the deity they worship. There are even cults dedicated to gods that do not exist that get divine power. Essentially they are all godless clerics who believe in the gods they worship. In this system praying to Orcus grants you powers. Add to this the no detection of evil/good and it also allows for the reasonable placement of evil corrupter spies in good churches, a plot device I enjoy having as a realistic option given the game world and fantasy archetypes.

For my games, on a fundamental level tapping divine power is a skill like arcane magic, it just has the trappings of belief traditions and worship. It is simply a different source of magic power such as the default psionic powers.

Flavor wise there is a world of difference between one divine tradition and another and from the arcane and other magical traditions. There is also the common belief that divine power is "granted" consciously by a deity.

 

[RangerWickett]

Hong, of course you're right about Slayers. I mean, Lina can even cast a Dragon Slave that does minor damage, just so she can show how pissed she is and cover everyone in black soot to show they're burnt. But the premise is that, ooh, oh no, it's dangerous.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

In my games, typically, the gods don't grant Cleric spells... Clerics just think they do. Like any Sorceror, Wizard, or Psion, the Cleric's spells come from his own inner strength, and his skill in manipulating the magical energies around him (proportions of each depending on which caster you are). While Wizard spells are shaped by formula and study, Sorceror spells are shaped by heritage and will, Cleric spells are shaped by their belief. The reason a Cleric's domains are limited by their deity is that their faith is based on the ideals of that deity-- which is why godless/philosophical Clerics also have limited domain selections.

I use Evangelists in my games as well, but they are shaped more strongly by personal experiences with the faith, and less by dogma, which is why they are spontaneous casters and why they have a slightly wider selection of domains. They're almost making up their religion as they go along.

 

[ciaran00]

I like evil. They grant spells because they can. Because I say so

ciaran

 

[Olive]

I voted Archfiends are effectively gods and grant spells.

My question, what is the problem with this option? Are there any reasons that can't be the case?

That said, I'm a bit of an oldtimer who still refers to the 1e Deities and Demigods which said Demon Princes, Archdevils, and so forth are Lesser Gods. I never really changed from that.

The reason is that offical DnD canon says archfiends don't grant spells. Not that I care particulalry, but that's the default position.

Whatever your choice is, your campaign is going to be fine.

But of course.

 

[Grazzt]

Yes arch-devils and demon princes/lords grant spells IMC. Each has a prestige class that is allowed access to the spells (for example, Dark Cardinals receive them from Lucifer, Ice Lords receive them from Kostchtchie, etc.). That is the only way to get them.