Level Up (A5E) Do Basic Maneuvers require an attack action or are they a their own action?

[Morrus]

They cannot attack.

By that token, can a player Attack Action and then Bonus Action use the overrun maneuver in the same turn after attacking?

Overrun can be used as a bonus action, yes.

 

[VeryEvilVillain]

So the overrun maneuver as a bonus action does not consume an attack to use, but one must be able to attack to use it?

Also yes there's no trip. It's Knockdown.

 

[Morrus]

So the overrun maneuver as a bonus action does not consume an attack to use, but one must be able to attack to use it?

Also yes there's no trip. It's Knockdown.

I’m sorry I’m still not following.

Each maneuver tells you what action is needed. For many it’s an attack; for others it’s an action or bonus action.

I’m not sure how else to phrase it!

 

[VeryEvilVillain]

Let's try wording like this.
When a PC attacks, it has 1/1 attack or more for extra attacks.

In order to use a basic maneuver, does it require using that 1 attack to use the maneuver?

If so, then would a level 3 PC use the Attack Action spending the attack (0/1), but then would be unable to use the Bonus Action Overrun basic maneuver because there are now no attacks to replace (0/1)?

Changing Question:
Can a familiar, who cannot use the Attack Action, still use Basic Maneuvers?

 

[Morrus]

Let's try wording like this.
When a PC attacks, it has 1/1 attack or more for extra attacks.

I'm not sure what "it has 1/1 attack or more for extra attacks" means?

In order to use a basic maneuver, does it require using that 1 attack to use the maneuver?

I guess I'm not saying it right but I don't know any other way to say it.

Each basic maneuver tells you what actions are needed to use it. Some require using an attack, some an action or bonus action.

I realise that's just what I said before but I can't think of another way to phrase it that would be clearer. We've reached the limit of my writing skill!

Does it help if I list them?

Disarm - attack
Grab On - move
Grapple - attack
Knockdown - attack
Overrun - action or bonus action
Shove - attack

Can a familiar, who cannot use the Attack Action, still use Basic Maneuvers?

It cannot attack. Therefore it cannot use manuevers which require an attack. It can use maneuvers which do not require an attack.

 

[Morrus]

I don't have my books handy but I believe you said above that a familiar cannot attack. If that is correct, than they cannot use basic maneuvers (which require attacks)

Not all basic maneuvers require attacks. Grab On is part of a move, and Overrun is an action or bonus action.

 

[VeryEvilVillain]

Ok, I think I see where the wording issue is.

Disarm, Grapple, Knockdown, and Shove do not state that they take any kind of action economy. Therefore their default state is that they MUST replace an attack.

Overrun states that it may be used as an action or a bonus action allowing it to be used without an attack.
[Worth noting thought that it may still replace an attack as per the rules for Use A Basic Maneuver "USE A BASIC MANEUVER: You can always choose to Disarm, Grapple, Knockdown, Overrun, or Shove as a basic maneuver instead of making an attack.]

Grab On's usage simply states that "By jumping onto its back or climbing up a limb" it can be used. It does not require an action, bonus action, or attack but simply to move into a larger creature's space.

THE VERDICT:
A familiar, who has no attacks, is only able to use the Overrun and Grab On Basic Maneuvers.

Sound about right?

 

[VeryEvilVillain]

This is of course contrary to my previous understanding that these maneuvers may be used as an action [or bonus action in Overrun's case] or replace an attack when a player has extra attack (allowing for multiple maneuvers equal to the attacks).

 

[Morrus]

Ok, I think I see where the wording issue is.

Disarm, Grapple, Knockdown, and Shove do not state that they take any kind of action economy. Therefore their default state is that they MUST replace an attack.

Overrun states that it may be used as an action or a bonus action allowing it to be used without an attack.
[Worth noting thought that it may still replace an attack as per the rules for Use A Basic Maneuver "USE A BASIC MANEUVER: You can always choose to Disarm, Grapple, Knockdown, Overrun, or Shove as a basic maneuver instead of making an attack.]

Grab On's usage simply states that "By jumping onto its back or climbing up a limb" it can be used. It does not require an action, bonus action, or attack but simply to move into a larger creature's space.

THE VERDICT:
A familiar, who has no attacks, is only able to use the Overrun and Grab On Basic Maneuvers.

Sound about right?

Seems like an accurate summary.

 

[VeryEvilVillain]

Cool. Thanks for the help!