Do characters know what spell levels and HP are?

[Klaus]

HP are an absolute value, but each individual HP can make up a different % of the total. That 10 HP strike from someone is the exact same hit no matter if it wounds the Fighter1 or the Fighter10. They might react to it differently, but in absolute terms, it inflicted the same damage.

The cleric needs to be able to figure out the character's HP total if he's going to cure people efficiently. Otherwise he'll be handing out high-level cure spells to folks who have 1 HD and an ability for exaggeration.


Yeah, but a Warrior1 can say he'll be greeting Athena in person after having been hit twice for 2 HP. This does not mean his wounds warrant a Cure Critical Wounds.

No, not really.

A longsword hit that deals 8HP damage to a Fighter 1 was a solid blow, almost enough to kill him. Another one of those and he dies.

A longsword hit that deals 8HP damage to a Fighter 10 was a near-miss, barely a scrape against the arm as the greater training of the Fighter 10 allowed him to turn what would be a solid blow into a glancing one.

I believe it was Gary Gaygax that mentioned that HP for a PC is a mix of luck and training reflecting the ability to turn a serious blow into a lesser one, whereas the HP from racial HD (for monsters) reflect the general toughness of the creature.

 

[airwalkrr]

I think characters know what spell levels are. After all, the derivation for spells per level are very mathematical. Someone would have to figure them out and name them so why not use D&D conventions? Hit points are a different matter. Injury would always be expressed relatively and never in terms so exact as hit points, considering the loss of hit points is often random and therefore difficult to codify.

 

[Felix]

This document still around somewhere? I'd love to get my hands on it.

The only mention of it I know of is by Sepulchrave, who'd forgotten who'd written it, and he believed it lost when the new boards came along. I've no idea where it might be.

A longsword hit that deals 8HP damage to a Fighter 1 was a solid blow, almost enough to kill him. Another one of those and he dies.

A longsword hit that deals 8HP damage to a Fighter 10 was a near-miss, barely a scrape against the arm as the greater training of the Fighter 10 allowed him to turn what would be a solid blow into a glancing one.

And they both take exactly the same amount of curing energy to heal. It's the same hit, and the cleric still has to know which spell to cast.

Put it this way: how do your clerics know when to cast Cure Light Wounds and when to cast Heal? Do they just know? Or is there some other in-character reasoning for their choice of spells?

 

[Seonaid]

Put it this way: how do your clerics know when to cast Cure Light Wounds and when to cast Heal? Do they just know? Or is there some other in-character reasoning for their choice of spells?

Yes! This thread has been driving me crazy, and this is exactly it! I have been mulling this around ever since I first read the thread, and haven't come to a satisfactory conclusion. So would someone please answer this for me?

Edit: I guess the only thing that makes sense, for me, is that they do "just know." I'd like it to be more . . . mathematical than that, but I don't see how it could be. Perhaps it's just an ability they get from their deity or force of choice. It is plausible (considering we're talking about a fantasy world), but not very satisfying, for me.

 

[Klaus]

The only mention of it I know of is by Sepulchrave, who'd forgotten who'd written it, and he believed it lost when the new boards came along. I've no idea where it might be.

And they both take exactly the same amount of curing energy to heal. It's the same hit, and the cleric still has to know which spell to cast.

Put it this way: how do your clerics know when to cast Cure Light Wounds and when to cast Heal? Do they just know? Or is there some other in-character reasoning for their choice of spells?

Same way a doctor knows when a bone is fractured and when it's fissured. They've seen enough of wounds to know "this wound would´ve killed a lesser man. But Conan is no lesser man". A Ftr1 with 5hp is wounded, but not much. A Ftr10 with 5hp has lots of cuts and bruises and gashes, with blood all over, but is capable of soldiering on. Both of them would fall from a blow of the same severity, but it's clear the Ftr10 took a much more serious beating to get to that point. You might even say he's in Critical condition!

 

[Seonaid]

But how can the cleric know if the person is Ftr10 v. Ftr1? Unless s/he knows the fighter before seeing him/her for treatment, there's no way to tell if the "severely beaten" fighter took 5hp or 100hp. The injury would look the same.

 

[Klaus]

Clerics are walking around the camp, tending the wounded after a battle.

"Look at that man. His ready to faint from that wound."
"See the wide-eyes? The shaky hands? He's new at this war thing. This is probably the first time he's been this close to death. His wound is but light, and he's almost folding from it. We'll see to him. Now look over there."
"That man with the dark eyes?"
"Yes. See those injuries? Probably broke a couple of ribs, and his skin is blue all over, and his clothes and armor are brown from the dried blood, which I bet is half his own. Yet he's still putting the camp to order, and his sword is drawn and ready for more. Those critical injuries would've killed a green recruit such as this, but to him the embrace of death is a familiar feeling. Go fetch the archdeacon. We need leaders such as that man, and only the archdeacon has magic powerful enough to mend those wounds."
"Do you think a spell of the 5th level will do it, Father?"
"There's no wound such a spell won't heal, Novice. But hopefully ot won't come to that. We might need that much positive energy to deal with the death knight, should he return before dawn."

 

[The_Old_one]

Hit points? No.
Spell levels? Yep, I've run my games with spell levels (and magical enhancement bonuses) as a quantifiable quality in game for years. It just makes sense that the characters would be aware of the varying degrees of spell/item power, especially when they can only access certain levels of power as they improve in skill and ability.

Heh. I'm reminded of the scene in Swordsman II (I think) when Jet Li is getting his ass kicked, and he does a quick estimate of how much XP his opponent has! ALways gives me a laugh, that one.

 

[DJCupboard]

Clerics are walking around the camp, tending the wounded after a battle.

That is one good way to play an experienced cleric's ability to properly adjudicate healing magic without an in-game understanding of HP.

I also like playing my clerics to ask for divine guidance when healing, especially the fledgling priests.

"O! Great Pelor! Guide my healing hand! May I assist this worthy soul in his hour of need! Great Pelor! What gifts of magic may I bestow upon this worthy soul? What gifts should I reserve for those in greater need? For yours is the Light of Sustinence forever and ever! Glory be!"
::ping::
"Lay still now, good soldier. Pelor's graces flow now unto you!" Casts Cure Light Wounds

 

[Vanye]

There's no rule for this, but since the PC can't ask, "How many HPs are you down?", and he also needs to be able to know if he should cast Cure Light or Heal, there should be some mechanic for the cleric to figure it out. The Heal skill works well in this function. It might not give an in-game response of, "He's 4/12 HP", but it would let the cleric know which spell to cast; the PC would understand what the Heal skill told him in the same way players understand when they say, "I have 15 HP left".

I allow a DC20 Heal check to know remaining hp after a fight. Sure, the characters wouldn't know numbers, but like you say, it lets them figure out how seriously wounded other characters are...and my players are unlikely to cast heals on random NPC's anyhow.