D&D General Do genes exist in D&D?

[see]

Yeah, I think that "genes" are not necessarily how peoples of the world would conceptualize heredity. I would probably look to the ancient Greek thinkers for ways D&D peoples would likely conceptualize it,

I'll grant that Epicurus (341-270 BC) didn't use the word "gene", he used something that translates as "sperm atom". But that was a discrete unit governing a particular characteristic, inherited from both mother and father, subject to segregation and independent assortment, with dominant and recessive types. He was able to work that out simply by looking at patterns of characteristic inheritance in human families in Athens.

Now, of course, he didn't know jack about DNA or cells or the like, and you don't have to use DNA or cells to have human patterns of inherited characteristics. Just like you can make a fork out of silver, stainless steel, aluminum, plastic, wood, bamboo, or any number of materials, you can make your game world's genes out of spirit or magic or whatever. But if human families look like they do in the real world, you either have genes, or you have gods following a set of rules that emulates the results of genes.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The existence of "half-races" which blend the traits of two different species suggests two things:

1. Heredity certainly exists in D&D, since the child has traits of both parents.
2. Genes, specifically, probably do not. The ability of wildly different species (e.g., humans and dragons) to interbreed is way outside the range of what can be explained by genetics.

So, heredity must be mediated by some other mechanism--a spiritual essence, probably, given that shapechanging magic doesn't affect it. (Again, see humans and dragons, who typically interbreed while the dragon is polymorphed into human form; yet the offspring inherits traits of the true draconic form.)

Edit: I suppose you could say that normal within-species reproduction is handled by genetics and inter-species reproduction is handled by spiritual essence, or that all shapechanging magic has a built-in CRISPR editor, but that seems inelegant. I prefer to have one single explanation that covers all cases.

Life is inelegant. An elegant single-cause explanation is inherently unbelievable, IMO.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Oh, I do - mostly because if I think about it and nail it down ahead of time then a) I'm not left floundering if-when it does come up in play, and b) if it's something big I can proactively bring it up either in play or before play starts.

And in this particular case, regarding genetics and character ancestry, it comes up right at char-gen: as an option after choosing/rolling race you can roll (against fairly steep odds) to see if there's anything unusual about your ancestry. Does your Human have a tinge of Elf somewhere in its background - or Orc, or Hobbit, or deity, or ... ?

You can't just reduce it to the question of interbreeding. There is evidence humans interbred with neanderthals. But neanderthals didn't have things like Infravision. Elves can also live to be something like 750 years old and they are resistant to certain types of magic. The gulf between a human, and elf, is just more vast in my opinion.

 

[Lanefan]

You can't just reduce it to the question of interbreeding. There is evidence humans interbred with neanderthals. But neanderthals didn't have things like Infravision. Elves can also live to be something like 750 years old and they are resistant to certain types of magic. The gulf between a human, and elf, is just more vast in my opinion.

I'd be inclined to agree with you were it not for the canonical presence of Half-Elves even as far back as Tolkein. Ditto Half-Orcs.

Once you've got Half-Elves then a) you have to be able to explain their existence and b) the door's wide open for other possibilities and combinations e.g. the offspring of a Half-Elf and a Human will be 1/4 Elf, what happens then?

 

[Scott Christian]

Something I see brought up in a lot of recent discussions is the "genetic" differences between, say, halflings and minotaurs.

This makes me wonder - are there genes in D&D? Is there DNA?

In classic Greek Mythology, the Minotaur is obviously not a line of people but a single individual. He is not the result of generations of mutations, but instead a curse by an angry god.

In the Forgotten Realms, the dwarves did not become short, stout, and gain darkvision after hundreds of thousands of years of selective breeding. They were forged by Moradin on a giant anvil.

So do you think genetics exist in Dungeons & Dragons? Do germs? What about other modern discoveries that were mythologized in a medieval world?

-------

In my opinion, genes do not exist in D&D. Children are born with brown hair or darkvision or horns because that is the will of the gods, not because of dominant and recessive genes. A rooster can give birth to a cockatrice. Humans can give birth to tieflings not because their great grandfather had hooves, but because they made a bad deal with a devil.

That's my two cents, anyways!

(Please not this is a very different opinion than I have about real-life genetics!!!)

I have not read the thread yet, but wanted to address the OP's question.

I like the OP's take on it. But fail to see how it makes any difference in the game if it is the gods' wills or genetic conditions. In my opinion, too many storylines are lost if there is no genetic markers.

 

[Iry]

I believe the canon answer is yes. Several people from our earth have made the journey to the Forgotten Realms, and some people from Greyhawk, Krynn, and Forgotten Realms have gone to earth. They even go so far as to claim that portals between these worlds were once well know and often used, and that stories of dragons and griffins on Earth come from these travelers. The Imaskar Empire is infamous for kidnapping people from earth to serve as slaves, for example.

I assume they kept their genes. Those people were capable of interbreeding with the locals. But it's also possible that the genes are meaningless and the native gods of D&D use a different system, like the way Gond simply does not allow certain technologies to operate the same way they do on our planet.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Do not try to mix science with D&D. That way madness lies.

Genetics is in the big set of "real world stuff that just doesn't work right", along with gravity, density (specifically the square-cube relationships that mean giants can't exist), plate techtonics (hello Underdark!), conservation of momentum (teleportation, I'm looking at you), conservation of mass/energy (where do shapeshifters put the extra mass?), lightspeed limitations of information transmission, chemical elements, etc.

I mean, it's debateable if the scientific principle even applies to a D&D world.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Do not try to mix science with D&D. That way madness lies.

Genetics is in the big set of "real world stuff that just doesn't work right", along with gravity, density (specifically the square-cube relationships that mean giants can't exist), plate techtonics (hello Underdark!), conservation of momentum (teleportation, I'm looking at you), conservation of mass/energy (where do shapeshifters put the extra mass?), lightspeed limitations of information transmission, chemical elements, etc.

I mean, it's debateable if the scientific principle even applies to a D&D world.

D&D Scientific Process:

1) Observe phenomena
2) Create a hypothesis
3) Cast Divination
4) Ask your god

 

[IndigoTraveler]

I don't apologize for taking this thread title as a Campaign Hook/Idea to find a guy named Gene.

 

[Campbell]

I will let biases stand clear. I am not a fan of bringing modern scientific principles like genetics and ecology into my fantasy. I prefer fantasy that has more of a fairy tail or mythical logic to it.

That being said even if we look at D&D empirically (and I believe we should not because I believe in following the tenants of @hong) it's obvious that traits do not pass in the same way they do in our world. There are bloodlines sure, but no real random mutation or evolution. Blood has power, often ancient power that stays with us and does not really dilute. Descendents of tieflings and humans are always tieflings. The blood of dragons can express itself in arcane power that stays with a bloodline through generations.