Do grognards have to be jerks?

[Ulrick]

4e ruined my life.

Therefore, it is my personal quest to warn others about the deficiencies of 4e so their lives won't get ruined, too. Sometimes, my zealotry rubs people the wrong way and I end up looking like a jerk. Sometimes, entire internet threads come crashing to a halt as I launch salvo after salvo of anti-4e vitriol against 4e proponents. Sometimes, people get mad at me because I refuse argue or have an open discussion because I know I'm right they are totally, and utterly wrong. And then they call me a grognard. To them I say: the truth hurts but it will set you free if you will only listen.


Furthermore, I understand that buying as many 4e books I can and then burning them will only help WotC's bottom line. But i'm not here to help WotC's bottom line, I'm here to help the average gamer become enlightened...

...and go back to playing Fantasy Wargaming, by Bruce Galloway!!! Oh yeah!

 

[Kzach]

Which is just so much bull. Both sides have been nasty and if you really can't see that then I don't think you are really looking at it.

Really? 'cause from what I've seen, the anti-4e crowd seem to come into the 4e forums to stir trouble far more than the pro-4e crowd go into any other forums.

Then again, I'm not a moderator on an RPG website.

 

[Oryan77]

Like words. Words are overused expressions that require no original thought to use.

The way that half of the people on the internet type out their thoughts make it seem like they are using some original jumbling of words. Their sentences are pretty hard to decipher. So they must have some original thoughts going on to be able to do that.

 

[Umbran]

Then again, I'm not a moderator on an RPG website.

Well, I am!

It is my considered opinion that trying to figure out who is worse is a stupid, childish blame game. Folks should stop trying to say how much worse the other guy was - that's not an excuse any more. Both sides have been more than bad enough - their cups runneth over with badness.

Spend more time apologizing for your own badness, than taking tally of the other guy's badness, and the world will improve.

 

[gamerprinter]

I've seen plenty of people self-identify as grognards. Primarily among people who used to play Micro-armor or Panzer Blitz, maybe. It's more of a self-effacing term or inside joke than term of real derision.

Again, not disagreeing, however, I have never met anyone claiming themselves to be grognards - my limited experience, I guess. I've only witnessed accusations of being called a grognard by some other person. Perhaps, that is a mis-use of the word, but I haven't seen it used differently.

 

[Herschel]

Which is just so much bull. Both sides have been nasty and if you really can't see that then I don't think you are really looking at it.

But the the point is (in the main example in this thread) 3E/Pathfinder fans have most times been the instigators by simple fact they didn't want the change and rebel against it where 4E fans liked the change and did go with it so there was no fight against it. However, when faced with the attacks by those who vocally deride the new edition the natural response is to fight back and the circle is in motion.

It was the same with WoD, 1E to 2E, etc. any time a game changes editions. The fans of the new edition aren't generally starting the discourse because they're going with whatever change happened and have nothing to rebel against.

And it's not just games either. Look at any music forum when Metallica came out with "Saint Anger" or certain Kiss fans after Ace & Peter left around 30 years ago.

 

[Hussar]

Well, I dunno which camp is more vitriolic. I really don't.

But I do know that whenever 4e is mentioned in mainstream media (and since it is the face of D&D to those outside the hobby, it's generally the only one mentioned), you see commenter after commenter crawling out of the woodwork to tell all and sundry how much 4e sucks and that the reader should play some other game.

Instead of simply accepting that mainstream media attention is good for all of us.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if, say, Pathfinder, got some mainstream media attention. Would we see 300 pages of commentary bashing Pathfinder? Possibly.

Actually, unfortunately, I think it's probable. :'(

 

[I'm A Banana]

It is my considered opinion that trying to figure out who is worse is a stupid, childish blame game. Folks should stop trying to say how much worse the other guy was - that's not an excuse any more. Both sides have been more than bad enough - their cups runneth over with badness.

Spend more time apologizing for your own badness, than taking tally of the other guy's badness, and the world will improve.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR1C2hVI6ig&feature=related"]Gotta give it up[/ame]

I'm especially in favor of a little bit of moral philosophy from a pretty old source that basically says that you can't judge others, since you don't sit above them, but among them. Usually goes, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," but basic message is that any superiority you feel over any other human being at any time is always a delusion born out of your own arrogance, and never an accurate representation of the world outside the cage of your own tiny little limited mind, and the world would generally be a better place if everyone remembered that.

Oh, which reminds me: I'm sorry for bein' a wanker, everyone.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

The angry grognards are no worse -- and no better -- than the sneering Pathfinder players (quick, figure out how to insert "4" into an insult!) or the frothing 4E fans.

There are jerks everywhere and they do the games they advocate an injustice by making it seem like you'd have to play with folks like them.

Gah! You had to make me do it, didn't you? Br4t!

Actually, now I have an idea for a game:Board of a city with bookstores, game stores, comic shops, and a convention Br4ts (or just Brats... but notBratz) vs Grognards.... cards with insults and stereotypical behavior, much of it shared... the winner is the one that drives away the most innocent bystanders.... I wish that Cheapass was still around.

The Auld Grump

 

[Mournblade94]

That said, I would like to see someone address what we observe in terms of threads like this versus threads created by grognards complaining about the jerk-like behavior of non-grognards. Again, if the two groups were equally jerk-like, it stands to reason that both would find cause to complain just as often and vocally about the behavior of the other.

Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is important to remember this.

There are many reasons a person may or may not post "individual type K is a jerk". I meet plenty of 4e players that insist it is stupid to play the old D&D because this one is modern. Being rather confrontational, I take them to task. That usually satisfies my urge to suddenly post about it on a forum.

Maybe the proud grognards don't get overly sensitive about it. Either way, one cannot possibly make an argument based on absence of a certain type of forum discussion.