Do grognards have to be jerks?

[Mournblade94]

I don't think anyone is saying that it does.

What is being said is that it tends to go one way more often and more strongly than the other.

That is a hedge. You have been pretty adamant that rudeness is greater on the side of the grognard camp, sticking pretty hard to anecdotal guns. Note that does not make you a bad person, but you can't hedge away from it.

Obviously rudeness happens from both sides. To claim that it happens MORE from one side is unwarranted, and difficult to defend.

If you honestly feel it happens more from one side that is fine. You don't get to hedge away from that.

 

[Elf Witch]

Really? 'cause from what I've seen, the anti-4e crowd seem to come into the 4e forums to stir trouble far more than the pro-4e crowd go into any other forums.

Then again, I'm not a moderator on an RPG website.

I literally quit coming to Enworld or WOTC forums and few other boards because of the hostility I encountered over asking questions and making comments on some of the changes. Some of the 4E fans left a really bad taste in my mouth. I noticed their actions more because the hostility was directed at me.

I also got tired of butt load of thread crapping I saw going on from both sides. If someone started a thread why do you hate 4E it was guaranteed that a bunch of 4E fanboys were come into argue with everyone. And I saw the opposite as well someone would start a thread about what they liked about 4E and in would come the ones who didn't with their axe to grind.

It was very unpleasant.

 

[Mournblade94]

Really? 'cause from what I've seen, the anti-4e crowd seem to come into the 4e forums to stir trouble far more than the pro-4e crowd go into any other forums.

Then again, I'm not a moderator on an RPG website.

Really? 'cause from what I've seen, the pro-4e crowd seem to come into the forums on Paizo, or the PAthfinder forums here to stir trouble far more than the anti-4e crowd go into any other forums.

Like you I am not a moderator on an RPG website. I can just report what I have seen...

 

[Elf Witch]

Well, I dunno which camp is more vitriolic. I really don't.

But I do know that whenever 4e is mentioned in mainstream media (and since it is the face of D&D to those outside the hobby, it's generally the only one mentioned), you see commenter after commenter crawling out of the woodwork to tell all and sundry how much 4e sucks and that the reader should play some other game.

Instead of simply accepting that mainstream media attention is good for all of us.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if, say, Pathfinder, got some mainstream media attention. Would we see 300 pages of commentary bashing Pathfinder? Possibly.

Actually, unfortunately, I think it's probable. :'(

I have seen that too. But I would like to point out all that proves is that the anti 3E people don't have the opportunity to post because it is not in the media.

Do I think it is right or a mature way to behave no I don't. I used to see this when ever there was an article about BSG a lot of the old fans would come on and act like immature jerks. But I have no doubt that if the mainstream media was writing articles about the old show some of the more obnoxious new fans would have been writing about how horrible it is and you should only watch the new show.

 

[Mournblade94]

Well, I dunno which camp is more vitriolic. I really don't.

But I do know that whenever 4e is mentioned in mainstream media (and since it is the face of D&D to those outside the hobby, it's generally the only one mentioned), you see commenter after commenter crawling out of the woodwork to tell all and sundry how much 4e sucks and that the reader should play some other game.

Instead of simply accepting that mainstream media attention is good for all of us.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if, say, Pathfinder, got some mainstream media attention. Would we see 300 pages of commentary bashing Pathfinder? Possibly.

Actually, unfortunately, I think it's probable. :'(

Where does this happen though? When the terminator show featured 4e, there were not people jumping on the terminator forums complaining they did not showcase a real game.

DAGGERDALE the video game does not have old edition fans all over it because it is 4e... (actually 4e and older fans alike just know as a game it pretty much blows)

Where are old grognards decrying the mainstream media attention?

 

[billd91]

But the the point is (in the main example in this thread) 3E/Pathfinder fans have most times been the instigators by simple fact they didn't want the change and rebel against it where 4E fans liked the change and did go with it so there was no fight against it. However, when faced with the attacks by those who vocally deride the new edition the natural response is to fight back and the circle is in motion.

It was the same with WoD, 1E to 2E, etc. any time a game changes editions. The fans of the new edition aren't generally starting the discourse because they're going with whatever change happened and have nothing to rebel against.

More of the "it's not us, it's you" mentality.

Maybe it's not a question of rebelling at all. Maybe it's a question of defensiveness. 4e get's criticized, 4e fans get defensive. In fact, I seem to recall some people around here saying 3e fans were getting too defensive about WotC's unflattering comments about 3e in marketing 4e. Why should anyone assume the same thing isn't happening when 4e falls under critical scrutiny?

For what it's worth, I think this is more a matter of perspective than either rebellion or defensiveness. If you come from one perspective, you are liable to think it's the former. If you come from the other perspective, you are liable to think it's the latter. In any event, it's most likely a form of confirmation bias at work on both perspectives.

 

[Mournblade94]

For what it's worth, I think this is more a matter of perspective than either rebellion or defensiveness. If you come from one perspective, you are liable to think it's the former. If you come from the other perspective, you are liable to think it's the latter. In any event, it's most likely a form of confirmation bias at work on both perspectives.

That's worth a lot for it is PRECISELY the matter at hand.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Old School by The Auld Grump, on Flickr

More for the OSRIC crowd, but it crossed my mind, so....

I guess I am in a motivational mood lately.

The Auld Grump

 

[Hussar]

Where does this happen though? When the terminator show featured 4e, there were not people jumping on the terminator forums complaining they did not showcase a real game.

DAGGERDALE the video game does not have old edition fans all over it because it is 4e... (actually 4e and older fans alike just know as a game it pretty much blows)

Where are old grognards decrying the mainstream media attention?

Well, it did take me a bit of searching, but, here's an article from CNN back in June of last year

Here's a quote of three of the first four comments:

MrAsheSin
"you'll be handed a character". That sums up 4th edition. You don't 'Create!' like with all the other versions. You just do. That's it. Take the pregen, jump into a fight, and bammo, go home.Wait, how is this role playing? Sounds more like roll playing.I've been a DM now for 14 years, and a player ... more

arioch
I've played D&D since 1980 and our group gave 4th edition a fair amount of time 1.5 years, but we had to call it quits. Final conclusion 4th edition is crap. Its way to combat focused, and because you spend ungodly amounts of time in combat as compared to previous editions there isnt much time... more

DohWhammy
I hope wizard continues to mess up the rules, makes the valuation of my 1974 Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide and Monster Manual go up in value! R.I.P. Gary Gygax, don't roll over too often

Nice huh?

 

[Mournblade94]

Well, it did take me a bit of searching, but, here's an article from CNN back in June of last year


Nice huh?

I had to add this quote from one of the players in the article, sorry I can't pass it up because it amuses me...

"The new version (Fourth Edition Rules) is about teamwork," explained Augie, who said he has been playing D&D since 1979. "I can whip up an Encounter in no time and players can be playing in about five minutes. In some ways, it plays out like a board game."

I would have to agree with that last sentence