the Jester
Legend
Well... think of the movie or tv scene where the wounded hero drags himself up to his feet and staggers back into the fight. No actually wounds are healed; his steely resolve lets him get back up.
Do Healing Surges close wounds?
- Thread starter Aberzanzorax
- Start date
Well... think of the movie or tv scene where the wounded hero drags himself up to his feet and staggers back into the fight. No actually wounds are healed; his steely resolve lets him get back up.
Since for me... all roleplaying games are games first, narrations second... there are no wounds (nor attacks, nor defenses, nor anything). Rather, every 'character' has lots and lots of different numbers and pools of numbers that get added, subtracted and compared to each other. The game is seeing how those additions, subtractions, and comparisons interact.
If the people involved in this game choose as a group to then overlay those numbers with narrative identifiers in an attempt to create a story based upon them... great. But I accept that doing so will never be accurate in creating any sort of 100% logical sense, nor will the terms used for those narrative identifiers always be 'correct'. Thus, I will do my best to work around any problems of logic or narrative discrepancies that I might come across so long as the game is fun and worthwhile to play.
If the people involved in this game choose as a group to then overlay those numbers with narrative identifiers in an attempt to create a story based upon them... great. But I accept that doing so will never be accurate in creating any sort of 100% logical sense, nor will the terms used for those narrative identifiers always be 'correct'. Thus, I will do my best to work around any problems of logic or narrative discrepancies that I might come across so long as the game is fun and worthwhile to play.
Samurai
Adventurer
If a character is unconscious and dying (rolling his death saves round by round), then healing surges can and do heal wounds. You don't go unconscious or die from "near misses that used up a bit of luck and some endurance". Even if you say it was only the final blow that actually connected and created a wound, and all the others were "near misses", healing surges can get you back to 100% health in just 5 minutes. Not 90% or 75%, not 100%-the damage of the final blow that took you down... a full 100% as if you were never seconds away from dying just moments ago.
And that is my real problem with them. I voted "Sometimes" in the poll because I do believe that sometimes attacks just cause superficial marks or are wearing you down, but other times they must clearly do real damage. If there were some way to wear PCs down, rather than having them drop to dying and pop up fresh as a daisy moments later, it'd make more sense. How about this: Each time you drop to 0 or fewer hit points, your maximum hit points drop by your surge value (25%), to a minimum of 50% of max HP. You can heal back 1 wound per extended rest. Surge values do not change, only max HP.
Example: You start with 20 HP, so your surge value is 5. After you drop to dying once and get back up, your new max HP is 15. If you drop and get up again, your new Max is 10, and you are always Bloodied. If you take an extended rest, you can heal back 1 of those wounds, making your max 15 again. A 2nd extended rest will get you back to 20 max.
Something like that, even where PCs fully recover from mortal wounds after 1 or 2 nights sleep, would be preferable to the absolute lack of extended consequences for nearly dying that we have today, IMO.
And that is my real problem with them. I voted "Sometimes" in the poll because I do believe that sometimes attacks just cause superficial marks or are wearing you down, but other times they must clearly do real damage. If there were some way to wear PCs down, rather than having them drop to dying and pop up fresh as a daisy moments later, it'd make more sense. How about this: Each time you drop to 0 or fewer hit points, your maximum hit points drop by your surge value (25%), to a minimum of 50% of max HP. You can heal back 1 wound per extended rest. Surge values do not change, only max HP.
Example: You start with 20 HP, so your surge value is 5. After you drop to dying once and get back up, your new max HP is 15. If you drop and get up again, your new Max is 10, and you are always Bloodied. If you take an extended rest, you can heal back 1 of those wounds, making your max 15 again. A 2nd extended rest will get you back to 20 max.
Something like that, even where PCs fully recover from mortal wounds after 1 or 2 nights sleep, would be preferable to the absolute lack of extended consequences for nearly dying that we have today, IMO.
IronWolf
blank
So every blow that actually inflicts damage is the killing blow? There aren't any hits that cause contusions, cuts or other ailments?
Mechanically backed or not how do you describe a combat encounter in your games? A series of dodges and misses until finally you get hit with that one single fatal blow?
From the 4e PHB it says this about hit points
"Hit points (hp) measure your ability to stand up to punishment, turn deadly strikes into glancing blows, and stay on your feet throughout a battle."
That reads to me that a person in combat is getting hit and taking punishment over the course of the battle. I'm not sure how someone takes a glancing blow from a mace while in leather armor and not have some sort of physical consequence.
Now does D&D abstract all of this into a hit point system as opposed to a wound system or hit point/wound system? Yes. But that doesn't mean these wounds aren't happening during the course of combat, we're just tracking it in a broad hit point system.
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
I ascribe to the 'damage is physical damage' philosophy, so yes, closing wounds is exactly what surges do.
It is my view that D&D (and rpgs in general) do not support anything beyond severe brusing or flesh wounds that heal relatively quickly. Nothing crippling nor anything that will stop the character adventuring for months is modeled.
So in effect, the character is fully operational or is dead.
This pretty much matches the typical fantasy novel/movie also. Conan does not die of peritonitis or blood posioning.
To be honest, I am not sure if I would want to see a wound system as part of the core of D&D. It is not a gritty kind of game and at this point in time i do not want to play gritty games.
So I guess in summation, if there is no provision for broken bones, punctured lungs and some kind of condition tracking for healing, disease and so forth then serious wonds are not really modelled by the system.
My view of D&D hit points is that they are essentially plot protection, and i am pretty happy with it that way.
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herrozerro
First Post
personally I let the players decide for themselves.
My wife who played a young girl character played it as luck, she never got hit until she was seriously hurt. While a friend of mine playes a dragon born slayer and every ounce of damage is him taking a beating.
My wife who played a young girl character played it as luck, she never got hit until she was seriously hurt. While a friend of mine playes a dragon born slayer and every ounce of damage is him taking a beating.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
I see it this way.
Any damage pre bloodied is near misses or little cuts and brusies. Most of these are superfical and minor.
the attack that bloodies you is a real hit. It leaves a wound.
most attacks between bloodied and 0 are slightly worse cuts and bruses, each one leaving a mark, but not leathal in and of themselves
the attack that drops you to 0 is a real wound.
when you get healed 9 out of 10 times it is pushing past the injury.
Now at the end of most dungeons our characters look like John Mclain from die hard. They have 2 or 3 bandaged wounds that look pretty leathal, and lots of bruses and breaks.
My warlord on saterday nursed a broken arm and a messed up leg for months, but when the fight started I pushed past the pain
Any damage pre bloodied is near misses or little cuts and brusies. Most of these are superfical and minor.
the attack that bloodies you is a real hit. It leaves a wound.
most attacks between bloodied and 0 are slightly worse cuts and bruses, each one leaving a mark, but not leathal in and of themselves
the attack that drops you to 0 is a real wound.
when you get healed 9 out of 10 times it is pushing past the injury.
Now at the end of most dungeons our characters look like John Mclain from die hard. They have 2 or 3 bandaged wounds that look pretty leathal, and lots of bruses and breaks.
My warlord on saterday nursed a broken arm and a messed up leg for months, but when the fight started I pushed past the pain
A healing surge doesn't do anything but specify how many hit points are restored by a healing effect. Now, a healing effect may or may not close wounds, depending on its source - magical healing is usually depicted as closing wounds, although I think there is room for magical "mental" healing as well (your wounds are still there, but you are charmed/psionic'd into ignoring them). Non-magical healing would probably not close wounds.
I subscribe to the "hit points and damage are abstract" philosophy. So my answer is, sometimes.
When a thunder bolt that pushes you off a 30 foot balcony, it is going to hurt. But you are so tough, it might merely knock the breath out of you. you take a moment to recompose yourself, and you're good to go.
A vine horror may be strangling you. By the time you get free of it, you have really exerted yourself, and perhaps need a short rest, but after that short rest, some superficial scratches around your neck are all that's showing.
You could be skewered by a spear, and taking ongoing 20 damage. That's a bleeder! Some magic might heal it, or you could be inspired to ignore that bleeder, but at the end of the fight, you'll have to tend to it. You will have lost a lot of blood, but probably carry around some magical healing, or liquid courage. But ongoing 20 damage could also be a dislocated shoulder. It hurts like Hades, but a heal check could pop it into place, easing the ongoing pain.
I leave PC injuries to the player's imagination. Some players like to imagine themselves walking in plate armor, their boots always filled to the brim with their blood after a battle. Some players like to keep their foppish attire immaculately clean through the goriest of battles. Same way with healers. If an eladrin warlord with an arcane background and multi-class insists that his healing is magical, I won't argue. It's all just flavor. Similarly if a warpriest feigns ignorance of any magic, and wants to do all his healing via inspiration, supplemented by herbs, that's fine too.
It's really all just flavor.
When a thunder bolt that pushes you off a 30 foot balcony, it is going to hurt. But you are so tough, it might merely knock the breath out of you. you take a moment to recompose yourself, and you're good to go.
A vine horror may be strangling you. By the time you get free of it, you have really exerted yourself, and perhaps need a short rest, but after that short rest, some superficial scratches around your neck are all that's showing.
You could be skewered by a spear, and taking ongoing 20 damage. That's a bleeder! Some magic might heal it, or you could be inspired to ignore that bleeder, but at the end of the fight, you'll have to tend to it. You will have lost a lot of blood, but probably carry around some magical healing, or liquid courage. But ongoing 20 damage could also be a dislocated shoulder. It hurts like Hades, but a heal check could pop it into place, easing the ongoing pain.
I leave PC injuries to the player's imagination. Some players like to imagine themselves walking in plate armor, their boots always filled to the brim with their blood after a battle. Some players like to keep their foppish attire immaculately clean through the goriest of battles. Same way with healers. If an eladrin warlord with an arcane background and multi-class insists that his healing is magical, I won't argue. It's all just flavor. Similarly if a warpriest feigns ignorance of any magic, and wants to do all his healing via inspiration, supplemented by herbs, that's fine too.
It's really all just flavor.
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