D&D 5E Do most striker builds weaken a party?

[Huntsman57]

After rolling up characters for a new campaign the other day we ended up with two tanky charaters with respectable damage output (myself as a battlemaster/abjurer and a paladin), backed up by two glass cannons, a warlock and a ranger with a bow.

It occurred to me that while the ranger will likely be doing a bit more damage than I, it wasn't by much, and since he wouldn't be in the fray, his survivability wasn't a matter of resilience, but rather based on essentially telling foes to attack me and the paladin instead.

While a similar thing could be said about the warlock, he will at least be bringing more potent spellcasting to the table compared to the ranger for greater versatility. Overall I feel as though for a glass cannon to be a viable asset to a party, it either needs to inflict considerably more damage than a tank character, or it needs to offer versatility to help the party out in a variety of situations. Strikers such as the rogue and the ranger feel like they avoid taking their fair share of the aggro from enemies, deal out average damage themselves in return, and don't offer a great deal of party support capabilities to make up for this.

What do you guys think?

 

[S'mon]

Hmm... yeah, my experience with 5e so far fits yours. I don't think it's a huge deal because 5e is not a tightly balanced system, but I agree that a party with several tank PCs is going to be tougher & more effective than one with several squishy strikers. Best bet is probably healer/Cleric, control/Wizard, plus several tanks like Barbarian & Fighter, maybe Paladin. Rogue, Ranger, Warlock etc seem fun to play but in terms of combat are a bit underpowered. They may make up for it in non-combat areas for some campaigns.

 

[Minigiant]

Well there is a part of the 4e terminology many get wrong.

"Strikers" were not all about damage. They also "[relied] on mobility, trickery, and magic to more around tough foes". Strikers were not supposed to be glass cannons. They needed some sort of emergency defenses or avoidance features.

The same is in 5th edition. If the offensive character isn't straight eclipsing the normal and defensive characters in damage, they need decent defenses. You really can't out-damage another character by much until 5-6th level. So low level glass cannons don't bring much really.

 

[cmad1977]

Funny thing: the party I'm running for has zero 'tanks' . Hunter Ranger,assasin rogue,monk,sorcerer,land Druid. They are surprisingly effective (to me anyways). Basically they behave like a special forces unit. Things have gotten rough on them in head to head battles against strong, well armored opponents but they still seem to crank out pretty good damage.

 

[Mistwell]

We're not dinging Rangers for doing what they do best? You have a beef with their mere existence, essentially?

 

[Zardnaar]

I have seen this a bit as well. Rogues hanging back and 1-2 PCs taking all the damage and the "striker" run away.

 

[Sacrosanct]

A ranger is not a glass cannon. They're more generalist, decent at just about everything. Decent AC, HP, attacks, spells, movement, survival, etc. Expect them to be a glass cannon, and you'll likely think the class is broken. It's not.

 

[Minigiant]

A ranger is not a glass cannon. They're more generalist, decent at just about everything. Decent AC, HP, attacks, spells, movement, survival, etc. Expect them to be a glass cannon, and you'll likely think the class is broken. It's not.

Correct

However many players ignore this and build them as glass cannons by going for offensive with every spell, feat, ability score, and race. Same with warlocks and rogues. Going all damage no defense too early in 5th is a good way to lose a PC or stand around hiding if your party isn't built for that strategy.

Unfortunately 5th edition is not as forgiving as 4th which gives you a lot of HP and moderates monster damage so you can tank 1-3 hits before someone else tougher saves your butt. In 5th, you can "git rekt" really fast.

And like I said before, you really can't go full "glass cannon" in 4th edition either with a lot of team build cooperation and a "striker" is supposed to be able to save and protect itself somewhat by default.

 

[BoldItalic]

What do you guys think?

I think there is a problem, but it lies with the players, not the game.

Rangers are not exactly squishy. A ranger has more hit points than a multi-class Fighter/Wizard and can have nearly as good AC - maybe just one point lower. Mechanically, your ranger is arguably a better tank than your 'tank'.

So it's a matter of the players' perception of what their characters are capable of and how they can contribute to the success of the party.

If the Fighter/Wizard defines his own contribution as being "I'm the meat shield", well, the rest of the players are going to go along with that and let him be just that. But justifying it by dismissing the ranger as a glass cannon is, well, frankly, dishonest. You can role-play a character who is prejudiced like that, and says dismissive things about rangers, but it may be a source of friction at the table even so.

Of course, if the ranger player says "I'm squishy, I'll have to stay at the back" and uses it to excuse yellow-bellied cowardice, well, that's a different matter.

It all boils down to the attitude of the players.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If you are dealing nearly as much damage as the ranger, you are no tank but a resilent melee striker...

We noticed that too however. Everyone needs to be able to enter melee if needed or you have a very dead "tank" soon. The other possibility, if you really happen to be squishy is that you bring either battlefield control to the fight like the wizard, or you brink skills with you to avoid a fight altogether or start a fight from an advantageous position. A rogue or ranger may be very good at that. Too bad, the ranger only happens to excel at that in his favoured terrain or against favoured enemies (or he uses magic).
If you accept, that the straight up fight is only the last few seconds of your battle, the "strikers" look a lot better.

Hint: Pass without trace makes your whole party very sneaky and often guarantuees you surprise, even with dex 8 fighters stumbling around in heavy armor.