D&D General Do players even like the risk of death?

[cbwjm]

I like death to be there, happy with it just being due to the roll of the dice. I essentially have a stable of characters, many that I game with have a stable as well so when one dies, another adventurer begins (at the same level). This is assuming of course that the players don't attempt to resurrect the deceased.

If someone does die permanently, it can be fun to enter them into some sort of "Hall of Heroes" where you note their stats, their date of death, and how they died. Whether they died valiantly defending their allies from a dragon, or they died valiantly getting their face chewed off by giant rats, it' a bit of fun adding in some basic details. I find these are some of the things that players laugh and joke about when thinking back on the game.

 

[Oofta]

Have to nip this in the bud, it's entirely wrong in D&D and as it's a foundation of your other statements it pulls the support out from them.

Death is a minor inconvenience in D&D 5e. As early as 5th level Revivify turns death into little more consequences than being knocked out until the end of the battle. It takes some diamonds (and see all the people proclaiming "gold is useless" to know how little of an impact that is), and a single spell slot. At higher levels or with NPCs even more options are available.

So, in the D&D paradigm, Death has no impact whatsoever on any plot hook related to the character unless the player doesn't wantto bring the character back. Because the spells do specify the soul is willing and able. In which case that character should be retired.

Different games will work differently. You're assuming there's a cleric that has revivify available. What if the monsters target the cleric first? What if the cleric is out of 3rd level spells or 300 GP of diamonds? What happens when the monsters drag the dead PC off where the cleric can't get to them? In any case, it's one of the reasons I do 5-10 combats between long rests.

As far as raise dead or resurrection, that's always been an option in D&D. So I don't think your assertions are anywhere near universal. Limit the gold you hand out, target the cleric, drag off or destroy bodies, drain PCs of spells are all options to address a perceived issue. I've limited raise dead and effectively eliminated resurrection since 2E for a reason.

 

[Imaculata]

My table is fine with individual deaths, but they want the story to go on. TPK's end up in auto rezzing right before the combat.

I'm not saying it's the goal... but surely there should be a risk of a TPK? If character death is possible in your campaign, do you step in as a DM when a TPK seems imminent?

 

[The Green Hermit]

I'm not saying it's the goal... but surely there should be a risk of a TPK? If character death is possible in your campaign, do you step in as a DM when a TPK seems imminent?

Nope. The TPK happens and we reset. However, if only one character lives, everybody else has to roll new characters.

We run published adventures and not homebrew, so the table wants to see the whole story play out.

 

[D1Tremere]

Alot of the time, D&D veterans may have criticisms that the game is a bit too easy. Its certainly easier than the older editions and player death isn't nearly as frequent, but the risk is there.

The question is: Do players actually want this risk?

Like most things, it depends. Some players like risk while others do not. This is why session zeros are important, to learn the overall player likes/dislikes and set everyone's expectations at the right place.
It is also important with character deaths when they do occur to know how the player is perceiving it. Some players will like it if it is in service to the story, while others will hate it no matter what. Some will feel like it makes them look bad as players, and my be embarrassed or ashamed. Some may not really care at all, while others may be overwhelmed by raw emotions. This should be handled carefully in my opinion.
The bottom line is, what ever the group decides will give them the most fun!

 

[Iry]

Have to nip this in the bud, it's entirely wrong in D&D and as it's a foundation of your other statements it pulls the support out from them.

Do you sincerely believe I'm talking about temporary death?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Allow me to go a step further, then.

What type of player death risk is tolerable?

Is it just the ones where no agency is had between how their character dies? If so, does that include the swing of dice?

What about deaths that occur because of a mechanic that players simply forgot?

What about deaths that were preventable but only through some obtuse method, like having counterspell to avoid the cleric getting PWK'd?

So, when planning a game, I think of players and games as belonging roughly to 3 categories based on most prevalent or important priority. Note that most players are a mix of the three, but tend to have one that is predominant.

• OC (original character) Driven players tend to really dislike random death. They are playing to explore the story of their PC, and the stories of the other PCs. Gameplay and plot aren’t as important as the characters. Death is acceptable or even awesome, for this player, when it is narratively satisfying. My friend’s Jedi bottlenecking a horde of enemies in a starship corridor as he holds the portal to the ship’s reactor chamber, rigged with explosives, holding them off long enough for his friends to get to their ship and escape, and then when the BBEG’s right hand comes to the fore to challenge him, he holds up the trigger device. “There is no death” he says, a slight smile on his calm face, and then clicks the button. “There is only the Force.” And the ship blows. A good death.
• Gameplay driven players often have a love/hate relationship with death, but absolutely have less fun if death from not being clever and skilled enough isn’t on the table. Skilled play is often their focus, but what they crave is satisfying gameplay.
• Narrative driven players focus more on the story, than others do. Like OC players, a narratively satisfying death is good, random meaningless PC death is bad. Tend to prefer that consequences and stakes be about more than survival.

 

[Blue]

Do you sincerely believe I'm talking about temporary death?

I believed you are talking about temporary death because you're talking about consequences - death, losing an arm, chronic pain, etc. But with all of the options in D&D between player spells and NPCs in the world, permanent death isn't usually a consequence except at low levels, it's a player choice.

In addition, I normally would not put things like "giving an advantage to a political opponent, suffering a curse with pros and cons, having body parts amputated, suffering chronic pain or having dramatic scars, a change in reputation" on the same scale as permanent death, but much more in line with consequences from a solvable-in-D&D death.

So yes, to me everything you were saying pointed towards you talking about standard character death, not permanent death. Now, I have to believe you if you say you meant permanent death since you know what you meant.

Your post actually comes off a lot worse to me if that's what you meant. "This was so important and pivotal that in a normal campaign if you die there's no coming back (permanent death as a consequence), but here instead I may give a political rival a boost, or a curse but don't worry it will have some benefits, or maybe a dramatic scar!" sort of defangs the whole situation.

 

[Asisreo]

So, when planning a game

Even greater question: Do people who like playing D&D...like playing D&D?

Do they like the nature of their being a lose-state? Or would they prefer to play in a way like purely roleplaying with the flavors of D&D?

 

[Iry]

So yes, to me everything you were saying pointed towards you talking about standard character death, not permanent death. Now, I have to believe you if you say you meant permanent death since you know what you meant.

Oh! Well then, yes, I was talking about permanent death. Though I suppose temporary death that takes the character out of the game for RL months or years would also qualify, at least until the group (and player) decides to bring the dead character back.