D&D (2024) Do We Really Need Levels 11-20?

[TwoSix]

Funny. I've never needed to end a campaign to do something new, but my campaigns do tend to be free-written PC-driven picaresques.

Same here. I mean, if people want to play high levels, why not just, you know, start there? I'm planning on starting my next 5e game at 19th.

Level is ultimately about the genre of play you want, it's not a reward.

 

[prabe]

I hear ya, just saying that narrative steam has run out by that time, too.

I'm fine with campaigns ending because they've run out of narrative steam, I'm just saying that shouldn't be the expectation, and if it is it kinda feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm fine with campaigns ending because they've run out of narrative steam, I'm just saying that shouldn't be the expectation, and if it is it kinda feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Sure, and I think it is good yhst the game has support for high level play. I just think the chicken-egg equation here cokes out to "people stop playing by the tike they max out the B/X Expert Set narrative play levels" and thst is not likely to change even with support.

 

[prabe]

Same here. I mean, if people want to play high levels, why not just, you know, start there? I'm planning on starting my next 5e game at 19th.

Level is ultimately about the genre of play you want, it's not a reward.

True. I find that playing (and GMing for) high-level PCs is easier if you've run them a while--starting at first is plausibly a haul, I'll admit--if only because everyone's had time to get some familiarity with these PCs.

Start where you want, end where you want, really--even my feeling about familiarity making things easier is probably not universal.

 

[Upper_Krust]

In my experience, it is because people have new ideas theybwant to explore, and by Level 10 have an itch for something new.

Perhaps someone will envision an epic/immortals tier game where players can swap out powers and even classes each time they 'level up' to experiment with different builds.

 

[prabe]

Sure, and I think it is good yhst the game has support for high level play. I just think the chicken-egg equation here cokes out to "people stop playing by the tike they max out the B/X Expert Set narrative play levels" and thst is not likely to change even with support.

I think saying the game has support for play much past 11th level is probably overstating things. There are things the characters get at those levels, and there are some thing that can purportedly be a challenge for them, but most of the published examples do tend to be the same thing as low-level play, just with bigger numbers--and that's not really what most people probably expect or want from play at those levels.

 

[Parmandur]

Perhaps someone will envision an epic/immortals tier game where players can swap out powers and even classes each time they 'level up' to experiment with different builds.

Eh, I think people I know are more interested in stories than "builds".

 

[Parmandur]

I think saying the game has support for play much past 11th level is probably overstating things. There are things the characters get at those levels, and there are some thing that can purportedly be a challenge for them, but most of the published examples do tend to be the same thing as low-level play, just with bigger numbers--and that's not really what most people probably expect or want from play at those levels.

WotC has continually tried to up the Level published material hoes to, and it hasn't worked, people still stop at the same place. I don't think lack of support is the issue, as much as lack of broader interest even when there is support.

 

[MGibster]

Same here. I mean, if people want to play high levels, why not just, you know, start there? I'm planning on starting my next 5e game at 19th.

My best guess here is that most people don't want to play at higher levels.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I'm probably an outlier, but my 5E campaigns so far have went from 3-20, 3-16, and 3-12 (and I wanted to run this one a bit longer than I did). Until recently I was also in a gaming group with a DM who ran high-level one-shots several times a year, including a 20th-level party that fought Orcus and a horde of undead, a 20th-level party that fought Tiamat, Vlaakith, and Asmodeus, and a 16th-level PVP event.

As for why higher-level play isn't more popular, perhaps the average player finds the number of options available at those levels overwhelming to keep track of? I personally use a custom character sheet formatted like a monster stat block to keep track of my PC's traits, actions, bonus actions, and reactions, and I make cheat sheets to keep track of my most commonly used abilities. Most people probably use a more standard character sheet and no cheat sheets, I'd assume.