Do you allow players to switch skill ranks around for PRC quals?

[Wolf72]

I'd say yes in certain circumstances.

for example, a friend of mine wanted a light rapier fighter ... we got up to 8th lvl before that dragon mag came out with the Duelist.

so we let him alter his PC around to fit the prereq's (had 90% anyway, just needed some fine tuning).

ej

 

[Shaele]

I'd say "no".

I think it's unfair to allow a character to change skill lists retroactively. Would you let a character remove ranks from a skill that he used, even if that skill may have been significant in the past? How do you deal with the inconsistency?

I think this also hurts characters that have been built with mediocre skills from the start. I know that if I spent significant skill points over 10 levels on (Knowledge: Sailing) so that I could qualify for a particular prestige class, I'd be very annoyed if the player next to me traded in 5 ranks each of Tumbling and Spot for the same Knowledge skill. Basically, my character suffered for most of his career so that I could qualify, where the other character didn't.

In the case of a "new" prestige class that already fit the character concept? I'd be much more inclined to relax the PRC requirements to allow the character to qualify (or to allow him to "get there" in a reasonable timeframe). As was mentioned earlier, 10 ranks in Wilderness Lore is pretty close to 10 ranks in Knowledge: Nature, why not equate them for this purpose?

 

[novyet]

I wouldn't allow it either, why should one player get to trade in some skill ranks just so they could qualify now? It's not really fair if player A takes some esoteric skill to qualify for a prestige class later on, and player B decides they want to take that class too and swap out some other skill for Knowledge (wicker baskets) or something. I'd say either take more levels of normal classes until you do qualify for the class. That's how I'd run it anyway. YMMV

Jerrid Al-Kundo, I'd be interested in seeing some of your work as well. Maybe you can email me, or post here in the house rules section?

 

[Mistwell]

Please understand, this is a senario based on all other things being equal. Assume NOBODY in the game had any details on prestige classes until around 5th level, and no skills ranks had been spent by any player in anticipation of a prestige class.

Given that senario, what the "I say no" folks are essentially saying (if they offer no other alternative) is "It makes no sense for character development or role playing, and I know you just found out about this prestige class that requires skills you don't have, but if you want to get to use this new prestige class in a reasonable period of time, you need to take a level of rogue".

And what are they saying to those who want to qualify for a new prestige class that has requirements based on Base Attack Bonus and saves? Go ahead, you get that class earlier, out of random luck.

Does that really make more sense than skill loans, changing prestige class requirements around, or swapping skill points? Is it really more important in your game to follow all rules exactly, at the expense of character development, role playing (and let's face it, at the expense of some amount of fun), just to follow the rules?

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

And what are they saying to those who want to qualify for a new prestige class that has requirements based on Base Attack Bonus and saves? Go ahead, you get that class earlier, out of random luck.

Nope; None of the PClasses I've developed are gained so easily. They all have Skill & Feat requirements that must be met.

One thing that folks need to keep in mind is that most PClasses are only 10 Levels (those that don't are usually 5 Levels, a rare few Home Brews having 3 or even 1). If such is the case, than being able to gain the PClass at 11th Level isn't a hindrance in the slightest (or 16th for the 5-Level PClasses). Does it really matter if the class was available at 5th, 7th or 10th Level since at 20th Level you can only have 10 Levels (or 5, or 3, or 1) in it regardless of other conditions?

 

[dvvega]

Jerrid: I'd hazzard a guess that the whole point is the WHEN of qualifying.

The more relaxed you are about switching skills, the earlier someone will qualify. Many people want to start prestiging ASAP, not at 10th level.

 

[Crothian]

For me it would dep[end on thew question Why?

I've only allowed it happen once, and that's becasue the MoTW just came out and the Druid only needed one feat (endurance) to qualify for the shifter. We were 12th level at the time. So, he traded out a more useful feat for endurance. THe feat he traded out was one he rarely used, I don't reacll what it was specifically.

I would also allow it if it was a minor change. If you needed to flip around two skill points, I'm not going to care that much. But if you need to change out 20 skill points, I'd not allow it.

 

[dvvega]

As I mentioned before, I allow players to undertake study to gain skill points above and beyond normal class given points. So it's really a non-issue with me.

However if I didn't have this mechanism in place, then I would say no. As mentioned by a previous poster, if someone has taken the care to qualify, while someone else just begs to switch things around, where's the fairness.

If you don't qualify ... too bad ... maybe your character has always dreamed of belonging ... maybe they go as far as telling people they belong to a select group. Think of the adventure possibilities.

 

[Crothian]

As I mentioned before, I allow players to undertake study to gain skill points above and beyond normal class given points. So it's really a non-issue with me.

However if I didn't have this mechanism in place, then I would say no. As mentioned by a previous poster, if someone has taken the care to qualify, while someone else just begs to switch things around, where's the fairness.

If you don't qualify ... too bad ... maybe your character has always dreamed of belonging ... maybe they go as far as telling people they belong to a select group. Think of the adventure possibilities.

That's why it would depend on the why for me. There are times when a prestige class perfectly fits how a player is playing, but the player is not aware of the prestige class. Let's face it, it's next to impossible to keep track of them all. So, if the reasons are good and sound I'll allow it. Being fair is important, but since I would allow this for all my players they don't mind it. Actually, they might band together to convince me to allow it.

This type of thing really depends on the group. As long as they are really non competitive and friendly as a group, they shouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[EOL]

In the beginning when there were no splat books it only made sense, they would have no way of knowing what the pre-reqs would be so it was difficult to plan. I would however ask each person for a concept, and if a prestige class came that matched the concept I would generally exercise a fair degree of latitude in letting them shift things around. Now that all the splat books are out, I'm inclined to be more strict.