Do You Feel The Cleric Is Balanced?
- Thread starter Merlion
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Mathew_Freeman
Adventurer
I think it's balanced, but it relies on the DM to make sure the roleplaying side of things balances the game rules side of things. It's all very well going around being totally independant of your church and performing general miracles to everyone, but sooner or later the church is going to want to use you for their own ends, and they might not be what you want.
Clerics have built in balances, which also serve as plot hooks.
But don't let them near persistent spell, that would make things just...wrong.
Clerics have built in balances, which also serve as plot hooks.
But don't let them near persistent spell, that would make things just...wrong.
Didn't Monte Cook say something very loudly and clearly about how it was a bad idea to use a roleplaying limitation to offset a rules advantage? That's what I feel clerics are like right now. If the DM wants to rein them in, the DM has got to come up with campaign-based limitations, such as your religion not wanting you to use Inflict spells or wear heavy armor. And many players respond to such treatment as unfair.
I am assuming, however, that there is general agreement as to the cleric, on paper, being the most powerful class. Spells that are almost as powerful as the wizard (and more powerful in some areas), the best armor proficiency, the best Medium Attack Progression Combatants (a cleric with the War domain can hold his own alongside a dedicated tank at most levels, and even an ordinary cleric can get some licks in with a mace), and so forth.
That's just what I'm assuming, though. I could be way wrong, and other folks could feel different. I had simply assumed that WotC made the cleric class better so that people would play it, instead of making it the "short straw" class that it used to be.
-Tacky
I am assuming, however, that there is general agreement as to the cleric, on paper, being the most powerful class. Spells that are almost as powerful as the wizard (and more powerful in some areas), the best armor proficiency, the best Medium Attack Progression Combatants (a cleric with the War domain can hold his own alongside a dedicated tank at most levels, and even an ordinary cleric can get some licks in with a mace), and so forth.
That's just what I'm assuming, though. I could be way wrong, and other folks could feel different. I had simply assumed that WotC made the cleric class better so that people would play it, instead of making it the "short straw" class that it used to be.
-Tacky
WattsHumphrey
First Post
Totally broken and step on too many toes.
At low levels, I've yet to see someone who could build a character that I couldn't mimic to a decent (not great) degree with a well-built cleric. At high levels, there are only a few diverse abilities that you can't get through some combination of spells or PrC's, and you probaly have alternatives that are better anyway.
I think they need some serious toning down, as I agree that when rp restrictions are imposed, they become much more balanced. I'd suggest toning down their spell lists a lot (let druids have druidic spells, CLERICS don't need them outside of a domain). Plus, balancing domain abilities would be good.
my 2c.
At low levels, I've yet to see someone who could build a character that I couldn't mimic to a decent (not great) degree with a well-built cleric. At high levels, there are only a few diverse abilities that you can't get through some combination of spells or PrC's, and you probaly have alternatives that are better anyway.
I think they need some serious toning down, as I agree that when rp restrictions are imposed, they become much more balanced. I'd suggest toning down their spell lists a lot (let druids have druidic spells, CLERICS don't need them outside of a domain). Plus, balancing domain abilities would be good.
my 2c.
I think it's a little too powerful, but I don't think it ought to be nerfed, considering how much trouble it was to get someone to actually play one in any of the games I played in or DMed.
Basically, I figure it's appropriate compensation for the effort involved in keeping the rest of the party alive.
Basically, I figure it's appropriate compensation for the effort involved in keeping the rest of the party alive.
Mathew_Freeman
Adventurer
takyris said:
to clarify, I meant that churches have political agendas and would want to make use of a powerful cleric, and if the PC in question didn't want to do his churches bidding for whatever reason, he could find himself excommunicated...
I wasn't referring to "your church forbids you to wear heavy armour" which I would say is just poor DMing. House rule it out of game if it's that much of a bother to you, rather than have some not-very-interesting in-game reason to do.
Incidentally, my current cleric is wearing celestial armour, so the whole heavy armour thing isn't much of a benefit to him.
ForceUser
Explorer
Probably the most powerful core class but suffers from the stigma of "having to be the healer," which is not a role preferred by many. Therefore, the fact that the class is powerful is a lure to people who might not normally play one, thus making DMs everywhere happy. Nothing sucks more than a party without a healer.
Sir Whiskers
First Post
I voted a bit overpowered, but that doesn't bother me as it's still almost impossible to get someone to play a cleric - even a power gamer.
When I get the urge to play a new character, I rarely think of a concept that fits a cleric. I want to play a charismatic rogue, or something unusual, like a halfling barbarian or svirfneblin monk. Play a cleric? Boring. It seems like the only interesting clerics are the really evil ones I run as npc's.
What I'd like to see are some character concepts for a cleric that are interesting, with hooks that I, as a player, can get excited about. Any examples out there?
When I get the urge to play a new character, I rarely think of a concept that fits a cleric. I want to play a charismatic rogue, or something unusual, like a halfling barbarian or svirfneblin monk. Play a cleric? Boring. It seems like the only interesting clerics are the really evil ones I run as npc's.
What I'd like to see are some character concepts for a cleric that are interesting, with hooks that I, as a player, can get excited about. Any examples out there?
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