Do you let Magic Missiles destroy Mirror Images?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Except that the 1E/2E versions did not explicitly have spells targeting Mirror Image images. You yourself looked and couldn't find it. Any spell targeting rules in 1E/2E for Mirror Image was at the sole discretion of the DM, so how could the FAQ return the answer back to the 1E/2E answer when 1E/2E had no answer?

What do you mean- I did find it.

While MI was not singled out, the targeting of Illusions by spells in general was allowed, the effect- how the illusion interacted with the a fully resolved attack spell- was at the discretion of the DM.

The only thing that MI said in particular was only melee attacks (1Ed) and missile attacks (2Ed) destroyed an image- not that spells could not target it.

And since the 2Ed version of MM said that it could target "Targets" not "creatures" or anything like that, there really was ZERO question of whether the spell could target illusions like those created by MI.

 

[Delta]

The only thing that MI said in particular was only melee attacks (1Ed)... destroyed an image

No, it didn't. It just said "weapon".

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Eh- you're right- my type-fu is way off this week.

IOW, in 1Ed, they said a weapon popped the image, and in 2Ed, they spelled out that they meant both melee and missile weapons could pop images...as if that was unclear.

 

[zlorf]

Actually if the Mirror imaged wizard had magnets stick to his boot all his images would also
reflect this...hence the wording of the spell "mirror image". The example they use regarding fireball states that all the images look like they are burning, singed whatever. So any effect, modification to the caster would show on the images as well.

Z

All targeted spells require you to be able to 'see or touch' the target.



Not at all.

Let's say a Mirror Imaged wizard in steel boots walks through a field full of magnets.

The magnets stick to his boots, not to the figments. Does this mean the magnets are capable of deductive reasoning?

Let's say the wizard and his four figments walk through a muddy estuary. Only one set of footprints is left behind when they've passed. Does this mean the mud is capable of deductive reasoning?

The spell doesn't distinguish between the targets. Once it's cast, it just discovers whether or not it succeeds or fails. The glowing dart isn't something that happens prior to the success or failure of the casting; the glowing dart only occurs if the casting is successful, and the casting can only be successful if the target is valid.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually if the Mirror imaged wizard had magnets stick to his boot all his images would also
reflect this...hence the wording of the spell "mirror image". The example they use regarding fireball states that all the images look like they are burning, singed whatever. So any effect, modification to the caster would show on the images as well.

You missed my point.

Magnets would only jump off the floor to stick to the boots of one of the six apparent wizards trooping through the area. All six would look like they had magnets on their boots, from the point of view of any observer (as you rightly note), but from the point of view of the magnets, they'd only be attracted to one pair of boots.

I'm not talking about the magnets as a way for outside observers to distinguish the correct caster; I'm just saying that the magnets don't need to 'distinguish'; they simply stick to the metal boots, not the illusory boots, because that's how magnets work.

-Hyp.

 

[Someone]

Not at all.

Let's say a Mirror Imaged wizard in steel boots walks through a field full of magnets.

The magnets stick to his boots, not to the figments. Does this mean the magnets are capable of deductive reasoning?

Let's say the wizard and his four figments walk through a muddy estuary. Only one set of footprints is left behind when they've passed. Does this mean the mud is capable of deductive reasoning?

The spell doesn't distinguish between the targets. Once it's cast, it just discovers whether or not it succeeds or fails. The glowing dart isn't something that happens prior to the success or failure of the casting; the glowing dart only occurs if the casting is successful, and the casting can only be successful if the target is valid.

-Hyp.

But in this case, the magnets and the mud are interacting with the illusion. For the Magic missile to behave in the same way, the mssile would actually be fired, hit the illusion and fail to produce any effect, not simply say "Moron! that's an illusion, I refuse to be even cast!", or the mud or magnets to decide in advance to stick to the real wizard's shoes because they can distinguish between real wizards and figments.

IMO, Mirror Image mechanics, specially their reliance on figment mechanics, contradict themselves. Seeing them as a set of ablativ targets solves many issues. As soon one "ablative target" (let's not call them figments for now) is targeted, doesn't matter by what, the ablative target is lost and the wizard is safe. It doesn't matter if the ablative target is a valid target for the spell, but the fact that it's been targeted or physically hit.

 

[Nifft]

I'm just saying that the magnets don't need to 'distinguish'; they simply stick to the metal boots, not the illusory boots, because that's how magnets work.

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but basing a rule about magic on an intuitive assumption about physics seems dangerous.

For example, shocking grasp is probably magnetic. Should a wizard casting that spell know the AC of each of his possible targets, since he has (for the duration) gained an affinity for ferrous metal?

I think this is a slippery slope, ending in Unified Field Thaumaturgy, which we all know is not a mature science.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but basing a rule about magic on an intuitive assumption about physics seems dangerous.

I'm not. I'm basing a rule about magic on the text of the rules under 'Magic Overview'; I'm only using physics as an analogy to illustrate what's already in the PHB about spells cast on the wrong sort of target.

For the Magic missile to behave in the same way, the mssile would actually be fired, hit the illusion and fail to produce any effect...

The missile is the second interaction with the target. The first interaction is the determination of whether the casting succeeds.

-Hyp.