Do you like stat-bonus magic items?

[Piratecat]

Nice little item there, PC! However, you've got to admit you could just as easily have as flavorful an item that gave you scaling bonuses to Int-based skill checks and knowledge of a few additional spells per level?

If I wanted something tougher for me to keep track of? Sure. But this way I don't have to worry about explaining odd exceptions to stacking rules. I find it easier on everyone to have stat-boosting items. I'm honestly a little surprised by the vitriol; I really do think that with a touch of creativity they can be quite cool.

 

[Benimoto]

I like them, though I agree that they're boring and take up a lot of a character's treasure allowance that could be going towards cooler items.

That's not really a bad thing. Like somebody said, you never get excited about your BAB or your saves going up when you level either. That doesn't mean that it's a bad mechanice, just that it's a boring but necessary one.

I definitely like the concept of stats as variable in 3rd edition. If the game mechanics supported it, I'd almost like them to be even more variable. A character's power increases so greatly as they go from 1-20th level that it's surprising that stats don't increase even more.

 

[pawsplay]

I always compare D&D characters to the mythological Perseus. He had a pegasus with a golden magical bridle, a magical reflective shield, a magic sword, a helmet of invisibility, and a number of helpful knicknacks. That's about right for a mid-level D&D character.

Things get annoying around level 18 or so... suddenly, the PCs can have all the medium type magic items they like, and character sheets turn into an accounting nightmare. Things reach Final Fantasy levels of resource management.

I don't think there's a solution. That's a logical consequence of accumulating powerful magic items for ten levels or so. In a world in which magical items exist, it's a given that powerful individuals will acquire dozens of them.

In Vance's stories, small time rogues and magicians might have a handful of devices, but the real wizards had a widget for virtually anything they might desire. It's hard to have an "adventure" at that level.

Even if you decree that gauntlets of ogre power are Str 24, that just means they have to keep looking for those Str 28 versions. Further, it makes stats even less important and loot more important.

Frankly, I think the price of most permanent magical items needs to be jacked up. Weapons, that's okay. +2 Str items and such should be doubled, at least.

 

[Kem]

Oddly enough this is why I like Epic Levels. You have the cash for your stat boosters and other mundane magical effects that you need.

Then you have plenty of left over money to make really freaky fun magic items.

After pouring over the character sheet and equipment list for Kem's new character, I find something odd. Something that doesn't make the wizard better in any real way...

"Hey Kem, what's with this brush? Why does it give Craft Calligraphy and Craft Drawing?"
"Oh, I plan to use Create Tattoo."
"But... You have 30 Ranks in Both... You are a level 27 Wizard and your INT puts it around 40 easy."
"I need a brush."
"Then why do you have it permanencied?"
"Its not a real Tatto so it washes off now and then. The magic stays but I feel safer with the tattoo still there."
"How are you going to be washing all the time? Its a fantasy world."
"Oh you haven't seen the Magnificent Mansion I tricked out yet have you?"

It really is amazing how cheap items with unlimited uses of a low level spell are once you have 20-30 million

But recently I have gotten in the habit of having fun magic items instead of the utterly useful ones. Much more fun.

As for the items in general. I feel the system makes you want them due to the lowish price. Inherent Bonuses aren't as "common" until higher levels because of the large investment and all at once nature of the beast as opposed to the little at a time nature of other magic items.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I find it easier on everyone to have stat-boosting items. I'm honestly a little surprised by the vitriol; I really do think that with a touch of creativity they can be quite cool.

::shrug:: I'm not what you'd call full of vitriol on this, but the question is more, do you think things would be better if the stat-boosting was subsumed into the levelling mechanic rather than exisiting as treasure, treasure that a DM essentially "has" to give out in order to keep things balanced and at the right power level?

 

[Mouseferatu]

::shrug:: I'm not what you'd call full of vitriol on this, but the question is more, do you think things would be better if the stat-boosting was subsumed into the levelling mechanic rather than exisiting as treasure, treasure that a DM essentially "has" to give out in order to keep things balanced and at the right power level?

I'm not P-Kitty, but that's what I'd like to see. I'd love for the game to dial back the amount of treasure, but increase the benefits a character gains via leveling.

I've thought of creating my own homebrew system to accomplish that--increase the number of feats and ability bumps, reduce the standard treasure--but I haven't had the time to sit down and work it out.

 

[Piratecat]

do you think things would be better if the stat-boosting was subsumed into the levelling mechanic rather than exisiting as treasure, treasure that a DM essentially "has" to give out in order to keep things balanced and at the right power level?

I won't speak for anyone else, but not for me. I'd rather have control over it; it allows me to better fine tune my challenges. Let's face it, class abilities aren't treasure, and shouldn't be treated as such. I feel no guilt at targetting a stat-boosting item with a greater dispel magic in a fight to temporarily nullify it and make a player nervous, and that'd be tough if it wasn't an item.

This isn't a situation where I feel the need to preach. I just like them in my own games.

so, here's a question: are they better or worse than the long-term 3e 2nd lvl stat-boosting spells?

 

[MerricB]

so, here's a question: are they better or worse than the long-term 3e 2nd lvl stat-boosting spells?

Better. By a mile. The stat-boosting spells were completly wrong in 3e. There is a particular role a magic items needs to fulfill: as a source of a permanent effect. That common spells were making magic items obsolete was a great source of worry.

I'd be quite happy if the effect of stat-boosters was reduced or eliminated from the game, assuming that the effect of stats was similarly curtailed. (Strength bonuses don't worry me within the normal range of stats, but requiring a 19 Intelligence for 9th level spells requires intelligence boosters).

Where I am most concerned with 3.5e is how the gap between character levels has increased. As a result, a monster quickly becomes obsolete as a challenge once the PCs have gone two or three levels past its optimum CR.

I'm more concerned with AC creep and Attack creep than merely stat bonuses - although they're part of the problem.

List all the ways you can increase your AC, and it becomes troubling.

Cheers!

 

[Rystil Arden]

I won't speak for anyone else, but not for me. I'd rather have control over it; it allows me to better fine tune my challenges. Let's face it, class abilities aren't treasure, and shouldn't be treated as such. I feel no guilt at targetting a stat-boosting item with a greater dispel magic in a fight to temporarily nullify it and make a player nervous, and that'd be tough if it wasn't an item.

This isn't a situation where I feel the need to preach. I just like them in my own games.

so, here's a question: are they better or worse than the long-term 3e 2nd lvl stat-boosting spells?

I agree with Merric, the stat-boosting items are far more interesting and more of a commitment than the old hour/level stat boost spells.

And I'm mostly with you on stat-boosting items (and the other things being decried in this thread like +1 shields or amulets of natural armour) being cool if you give them flavour. For instance, my most recent character (which I created starting at level 8) has only these sorts of items, and I think some of these are certainly as interesting as Bowl of Summoning Water Elementals--

For instance, her +1 Mithral Shield (with the +1000 intelligent item ability) equivalent item is revisualised as a little water spirit that deflects attacks:

[SBLOCK=Miera, Protective Water Aeon]During Nissa's adventures with her fellow crewmates (before they were crewmates of course), they helped save Miera from a cruel and corrupt water elemental crime lord. Although she is unable to communicate on much more than an empathic level, Miera and Nissa became quick friends, and Nissa makes sure to spend time talking to Miera each day (although the little spirit can only talk back via empathy, so she sometimes looks funny doing so). As a water aeon, Miera can only effect the physical world as an extension of another being of water with whom she has bonded. Before, she had been forced by intimidation and brute strength into a bond with the elemental crime lord that left her feeling violated as she was used for evil. Now, she lives happily with Nissa, often curling up along Nissa's left arm, where she enjoys being pet and looking around at Nissa and her other friends from her perch. When Nissa is in danger, Miera springs to action, deflecting blows against her nereid friend with a shield of water. +2 bonus to AC, no ACP or spell failure, 10 Int, 12 Wis and Cha, 30 foot vision and hearing, communicates through empathy[/SBLOCK]

Her Charisma-booster is a gift from her father that emphasises her fey heritage:

[SBLOCK=Bracelets of Fleeting Elsyiu]The only connection Nissa has to the father she never knew, this pair of bracelets made of gold and water resistant mystical wyrwood, was sent to Clymene from Tithynos's realms. Although it is unclear whether it actually came from her father or was instead the gift of a well-wisher, Nissa would wear the bracelets often as a child, daydreaming about her father and how wonderful he must be, longing to meet him some day. Although she has still never met him, she considers her father to always be with her as long as she wears the bracelets, and she therefore treasures them second only to her cloak. For their part, the bracelets reinforce Nissa's already-strong fey heritage, granting her a +2 enhancement bonus to Charisma. [/SBLOCK]

and her Cloak of Resistance was originally the blanket used to swaddle her as a baby to protect her from harm, able to shift size and style somewhat:

[SBLOCK=Mother's Loving Embrac]It may not be her most valuable item monetarily, but Nissa treasures this magical shifting cloak above all other material possessions, though she would never place even this most treasured of possessions above the life of a friend or her dear Anemone. Able to shift to fit her as she grows older and shimmer into many different colours, this cloak was originally used as a swaddling blanket when Nissa was just an infant. It was enchanted personally by Clymene to keep her dear daughter safe, and it has been successful to this day. Even when Ananke imprisoned her, Nissa never truly despaired while her mother's cloak was near, until the day that the cruel time elemental proclaimed it a crutch and took it away. Even the heartlessly impartial time elemental realised how much the cloak meant to Nissa, however, and despite being willing to stoop to physical torture, the girl's plaintive and frightened sobs and trauma after losing the cloak and being struckby her mother moved even Ananke's heart, at least a little. When Nissa finally mastered her first divination spell, Ananke returned the cloak, leading to one of Nissa's only happy days between her mother's fury and the day her godfather set her free. The cloak grants Nissa a +2 resistance bonus to all saving throws. [/SBLOCK]

 

[Aaron L]

I love them.

I enjoy thinking up and portraying how a magical increase in Intelligence or Wisdom or Charisma will affect the personality of a character.