Do you like XP costs for magic item creation?

[Tenniel]

Essentially you are trading XP (and time) for:

1) GP
2) Access to items you might not ordinarily find
3) the fluff of "I crafted this myself"

So it seems fair. The problem is it just puts crafting PCs behind the other PCs in the same party. Ands for minor items it can be a total miniscule amount and hardly worth the paperwork. Make some big ones all the time and your PC could lag well behind. Also the PC could make items for other PCs, who get the benefit without the XP costs.

I used crafting extensively in a "living" campaign as it didn't really matter what level the PC was at. Other players were happy to have me at the table as I always shared out my crafted items (especially the 16 pearls of power).

 

[justanobody]

Thanks for pointing out page 88 to me. Figures its not in the DMG. Where "Creating Magic Items" is located. Such a cost definitely shouldn't be mentioned in such a chapter.

I couldn't even find it in the SRD and wasn't even thinking of looking in the feats section....I thought it could drain off a level too, but still I don't like the system as XP isn't something you can spend...

 

[Delta]

The problem is it just puts crafting PCs behind the other PCs in the same party. Ands for minor items it can be a total miniscule amount and hardly worth the paperwork. Make some big ones all the time and your PC could lag well behind. Also the PC could make items for other PCs, who get the benefit without the XP costs.

Counterintuitively, I found that it worked out exactly the opposite for my long-running 3E cleric. I (a) crafted items like crazy, (b) they upped my survivability, (c) I died less than anyone else in the party, so (d) I wound up ahead of everyone else in levels.

 

[billd91]

I don't like XP costs for anything... but then I don't like energy drain or raising losing levels either. As I see it, once you've got the XPs, you've earned them and nothing can take them away.

That said, I can understand why the designers of 3e decided to bring in the idea. Previously, things cost you years of your life or CON, but since losing years didn't matter much to long-lived demihumans like elves, and CON seemed a bit too precious for anyone making a simple +1 sword, I can see why an alternative would be preferred. And, like it or not, XPs are probably one of the few resources players might be a little wary of spending willy-nilly.

I just don't happen to like it, on a philosophical basis.

I do like time requirements for crafting items. So the PCs may take some down-time while the wizard gets his kitbashing on. I'd like to see more players put their characters on some down-time once in a while. Life can't all be death-defying adventures 24-7. Plus, time gets to be a premium during some campaign stories.

 

[GreatLemur]

I do not dig XP costs for anything. They feel ridiculously punitive, they frequently tax those who won't actually be benefitting (directly) from the expenditure, they threaten to disrupt level parity, and they make things rather difficult for those of us who don't use XP in the first place.

The method that sounds best to me is replace XP with some magical raw material--like residuum from 4e, or levin from Green Ronin's Advanced Gamemaster's Guide--which can be harvested from other magical items, supernatural creatures, places of arcane power, etc. That way, the DM can give out a sort of treasure which functions as potential magic items, to be forged by the PCs into whatever they need . . . but always limited by what the DM supplies.

 

[Earthstone]

XP is just an abstaction...

Guys, XP does not represent what your character knows, it is just an abstraction designed to help you determine when your character is ready to go up a level. In fact, I rarely use the official amounts of XP for any given encounter as anything more than a guideline. What if your players were to go up a level and get a new ability (lets say a sorcerer or mage getting fly) and all of a sudden your carefully planned adventure is over in 20 minutes because the characters became over powered. The DM is in ultimate control of what goes on, just as they control the level of gold they too control the amount of XP being given out. The reason it "costs" XP to make magic items is because adding items mean adding abilities means you need to wait a little longer before going up a level and adding MORE... besides, if the rest of the party levels ahead of the poor caster because they spent some XP to make items (likely for the whole party's benefit) the rules say that the character of lower level actually earns MORE XP and will thus catch up over time....

 

[Nagol]

Prior to 3.0, I ran a Hero System's game where the PCs were apprentices. The campaign world was constructed so that magic was powered by spiritual energy. Creating a magical effect, especially a permanent effect, required sacrificing a small piece of the soul.

That was the rationale for it costing Character Points in that system and I simply lifted the same rationale for D&D.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

Yes I do like it.

Creating magic items should be more like a punishment, something that is hard and awful to achieve, and also reserved for high-level characters.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Yes I do like it.

Creating magic items should be more like a punishment, something that is hard and awful to achieve, and also reserved for high-level characters.

Hah. Then, by golly, and with the help of some timely necromancy, welcome to the minority!

Or, as the poll would have it, "nearly 3 in 10"... so not quite the anomaly I was expecting, when I started the thread all that time ago.


edit: Oh blast. I forgot, all this time - though, to be fair, for much of that, I'd forgotten the thread existed - to mention that I was (and am still...) using a variant of the Level-Independent XP Awards, uh, rules variant. From UA (the 3.5 one). Otherwise, indeed, you do have the issue of those who've expended XP catching up, quick smart. Which defeats the whole purpose, as far as I'm concerned. Others, I don't doubt, feel differently, for one reason or another. Personally? I like the actually permanent transferral of life-force, energy, whatever. Yes, it's a trade-off, and yes, it should be!

 

[kitsune9]

I do.

But, as I realised when posting in another thread just now (and as I wrote there) I think sometimes that I must be one of the only gamers in the world who does!

So. . . anyone else? And yeah, there's a poll - so vote!

Oh man, this is such a hard question to answer. I think in a way, I do like XP costs, but I can definitely see the other side of the argument too in not supporting XP costs for making magic items. Right now, I'm running Pathfinder as is, so there's no XP costs for making magic items.

XP costs serve a useful function that if an item to be created is costly enough, either A) the item will truly be rare and will only be of use to the original creator and B) will prevent magical revolutions / Magic Mart / flood of common, yet costly magic items. This works for DMs who don't like these aspects of D&D and don't allow them, because the rationale is that if people have to literally give up their lifeforce to create a magic item, they certainly aren't going to put it on the market unless they are desperate for funds.

However, XP costs can be a real hindrance for DMs and players who like magic items and having lots of them around. It also makes the crafting feats a bit more unpalatable to those spellcasting classes. So eliminating the requirement then only makes magic items expensive in terms of gp cost and nothing else. There's a lot of fun to be played for the wizard who in between adventures can sit around and spend his hard-earned gold on scribing scrolls and crafting wands for the next adventure. I played one type of wizard and it definitely helped us avoid the "15 minute adventuring day" for most game sessions.