Do you need high stats to be an effective character?

[TheAuldGrump]

A single 16 or a pair of 14s is fine with me, but I also want a low stat (9 or lower) to give the character flavor.

If I am not doing a class that relies on Charisma then I roll it separately, I am not fond of the Cha dump.

For NPCs I point buy, 20 for a brute, 25 for an average schlub, 28 for a major villain.

The Auld Grump

 

[Seeten]

I hope you're being a bit facetious here. How would having average stats hamper your role-playing? It just hampers your ability to role-play extremes because that isn't a role supported by the character's base characteristics. I'm tempted to say it hampers your ability to over-act like a community theater reject, not your ability to play a realistic role.

I am being nothing less than honest. I am not Joe Schmoe in real life. If my character has a 10 int, I have to play him like he is almost a moron. A 10 charisma means he is either unremarkable(in other words, he says nothing catchy and draws little attention, or, that half of the attention he attracts is unsavory. He is certainly not going to be likable and gregarious, now, is he) a 10 wisdom means you're no wiser than the village blacksmith. It limits the roles you fit into. A 16 charisma means you can be smart, funny, and witty, and sometimes rude, and get away with it, or, beautiful, and charming and sagacious. Either one. Or even slick, and manipulative. A 10 charisma character can be beautiful but a social moron, or smart and rude, or manipulative but unsuccessful, or just plain unremarkable nothing.

The roles the 10 gets to engage in are remarkably unfun to me, and thus, charisma is never my dump stat.(Unless the dm makes the characters and sticks me with the half-orc barbarian...*sigh*)

Physical stats arent nearly so important in defining personality, but I dont see where you get this "Over-acting dinner theatre" idea. Roleplaying is about playing a role. John, the idiot drooling son of the blacksmith, with a powerful physique, isnt exactly the role I am gunning for.

 

[Crothian]

This is the funny thing, from a bunch of avowed hack and slashers, it sounds like you are trying to be elite on "high stats" as if that made people "Munchkins". These same people have their build statted out 20 levels in advance, have mathematical and statistical evidence to support how much to power attack for, have 7 classes optimized for bonuses, and then cop a "All I need is 2 14's and a 10 point buy" attitude like everyone else is some kind of powergamer.

I find it amusing almost to the point of absurd.

No one is trying to be elite, least I'm not. We just have a lot of talk in different point buy/rolling threads that talk about what a character "needs" to be effective.

 

[drothgery]

I think this is one of the problems, people think some classes need all sortsof high abilities to be effective. Monks get good unarmed damage, they don't need high strength. They get great saves so that lessons their need for high Dex, Con, and Wisdom. They get good skills so that also helps them overcome some low stats. HD is good, another reason not to need a high con.

Maybe, but one 16 and 5 10s could be a decent Wizard; six 12s could be a decent Monk. The reverse is not the case.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I like having at least one stat that is decent (14 or higher) as that gives me a point of focus for the strength of the character. Now if the party is full of elite score characters, well, I may find myself relegated to a secondary role and might not enjoy the character as much. Flip side is I have had characters with fantastic stats who never really went anywhere because I did not come up with a personality that made him enjoyable to play. Sure he kicked butt in a fight, but the character had little more that that to him.

If I can develop a character with an interesting background/personality who is not actually a hinderance to the party most of the time, I will have fun playing them.

 

[domino]

Depends what it is. I generally want at least one 16. If it's a broader class, like paladin or rogue, I'll want at least two highish stats. A fighter, I'd like an 18 str, but as long as it's decently high, that's fine.

And of course, I hate having negative stats on a roll.

 

[Henry]

I usually want one 16, though it's not required. Furthermore, I don't really consider a 14 a "high" stat, but having it as your highest stat is still quite acceptable.

Arn: Did you play this character to higher levels? Starting with a 14 in Intelligence, as a wizard, you would have an 18 Intelligence by level 16, assuming you put every ability increase in Intelligence. If you got to level 17 you would not be able to cast 9th level spells unless you had read a tome or were wearing a magical item which increases your Intelligence (Not to say this is necessarily difficult).

I don't know about the 14, but the 15 works quite well. Keep in mind that even if the save DCs were a point or two lower, a wizard can still be played well - the logic still applies to him as well as higher-attribute wizards to cast spells that aim for an opponent's weakness, i.e. Cast holds on warrior-types, ranged touch and area-affects on clerical types, etc. Also, feats like spell focus become that much more important to a character.

I'll say this much: I do have reason to believe (based on personal experience) that people are right who claim that equivalent to a 32 point-buy or higher actually raises the level adjustment of a character by as much as +1; someone with several 18's and 16's in their scores actually seem to perform as if they were one level higher.

 

[Seeten]

In that case, I am all for either adding an extra level or class to monsters faced, adding one to the cr of the expected encounter, or dropping xp by the equivalent amount. Turning the heroes into the "everyman" while Drizzt and Elminster run around with their scores all at 20 just makes me say "Sorry, next!"

I'd rather play the Fellowship from Lord of the Rings, with their heroic stats, than play Haldir, with his 10's 12's and a 14, destined to little more than being a miniature on a battlemat.

 

[Darkness]

Maybe, but one 16 and 5 10s could be a decent Wizard; six 12s could be a decent Monk. The reverse is not the case.

Depending on race, yeah. (A gray elf wizard with six 12s is doable, though not optimal.)

 

[billd91]

I am being nothing less than honest. I am not Joe Schmoe in real life. If my character has a 10 int, I have to play him like he is almost a moron. A 10 charisma means he is either unremarkable(in other words, he says nothing catchy and draws little attention, or, that half of the attention he attracts is unsavory. He is certainly not going to be likable and gregarious, now, is he) a 10 wisdom means you're no wiser than the village blacksmith. It limits the roles you fit into. A 16 charisma means you can be smart, funny, and witty, and sometimes rude, and get away with it, or, beautiful, and charming and sagacious. Either one. Or even slick, and manipulative. A 10 charisma character can be beautiful but a social moron, or smart and rude, or manipulative but unsuccessful, or just plain unremarkable nothing.

The roles the 10 gets to engage in are remarkably unfun to me, and thus, charisma is never my dump stat.(Unless the dm makes the characters and sticks me with the half-orc barbarian...*sigh*)

Physical stats arent nearly so important in defining personality, but I dont see where you get this "Over-acting dinner theatre" idea. Roleplaying is about playing a role. John, the idiot drooling son of the blacksmith, with a powerful physique, isnt exactly the role I am gunning for.

I think an attitude like this really ends up limiting yourself. Is is possible to play a 10 charisma character like a higher charisma one? Sure is. He can try to be gregarious, even think he is, but there's some quirk to him that makes all fall flat. Perhaps he has really bad halitosis so that his flowery words are canceled by the onus of being near him. In any event, the stat tells us that, despite his attempts, he gets no bonus. Finding out what that is could generate a fun role to play.
A 10 Int played as a moron? Absolutely not. Can you think of memorable characters in literature or other media that aren't that smart? How about Cliff Clavin from Cheers (played by John Ratzenberger)? Always spouting off as a know-it-all, but being wrong all the time. An average Int character playing like he's a high Int character.
Do stats limit the sort of roles you play? In a sense they do, but average stats aren't really more limiting than high stats since playing a shy, shrinking violet is no more credible with an 18 Cha than a successfully gregarious gadfly is with a 10 Cha.
If it's a matter of personal preference, then there's nothing more to be said really. You prefer characters that tend more toward the top-heavy personalities. There's nothing wrong with that. But some of us don't feel hampered by middling or worse stats when it comes to role-playing, we just set out different RP goals.