Do you need high stats to be an effective character?

[Mercule]

On the other hand, if I were in your game, I'd remember your character far easier than I'd remember the fighters, and retell his story more often.

Quite right. I think I've been inspired for either a PC or an NPC. Sounds like fun.

 

[D+1]

voted for one 16, but really it's not a question that has a single answer. It depends. It matters what kind of campaign the DM is running, what kind of character is actually being played and how that character compares with other PC's and NPC's. But as a general rule of thumb I really prefer to see at least one 16 on a character sheet. I can live without it of course, I just don't care to if I don't have to.

 

[Wystan]

Cliff is a moron, he is a textbook case of what I want to avoid.

The stats tell a tale. You can choose to play "as though you have cha 18" all you like, but I think thats poor roleplaying. I'll play my 10 cha, personally. So if I have a 10, you can expect sometimes interesting, sometimes incredibly boorish, tactless, tactful, and otherwise random acts, which run the gamut of good for the situation to terrible. Or, you can expect, as in the case of my 10 cha half-orc, that I will grunt when I begin raging, and bellow loudly as I swing my axe, before throwing a d20 as though I care. Which I dont. Since the character is completely forgettable.

Maybe it is just me, but I suspect it isnt, as I see many people locally, and elsewhere, with exactly the same viewpoint.

So you are saying that the majority of humans are forgettable?

I would say that there are numerous 10int and 10cha people that we know, interact with, and remember every day.

A 10 int is the guy that builds superconductors. He may not be able to tell you exactly what they do but he would none the less be an interesting conversation for a while.

A 10 int is most authors, good for 1-2 books before they run out of ideas.

A 10 cha is most Aging Rock Stars. They are DOG ugly and still have the girls because they have a high wis/int agent.

A 10 str is your average 20-30 year old that jogs once a week or so and tries to stay in shape.

These are average.

Cliff is an 8 Wisdom and a 10-12 Intelligence, this means that he acts like he is smarter than he is as he knows no better. (He had the right facts, just the wrong numbers... )

Rocky is a 10 charisma. Forgettable except he is the muscle bound clod who can get your butt out of the fire.

Luke Skywalker was a 10 Intelligence.

Peter Parker is a 10 Charisma.

 

[Seeten]

You know, after further thought about the issue at hand, I have this to say: I play RPG's to play interesting and cool characters, and to be an important player in a story. I have, and will, play a fighter with a 10 str, 10 dex, 10 con, as long as he has high mental stats, I'll play a Wizard with a 13 int, as long as he has other memorable stats, a Sorceror with 13 charisma, again, with other memorable stats. What I wont do is play a character who is no better than a level 7 expert from the campaign world.

I am inspired by tales like Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars. I like high fantasy. Maybe its just a style difference, after all. I want to be the grand hero the epic tales will be sung of, not the level 3 slob who died in a ditch with all 11's for stats. But as I say, I have played a 9 str fighter with no appreciable physical stat to speak of. I had a lot of fun with it. Mind you, the fighter had high charisma, and was noble, and intelligent, and wise. Good roleplaying.

I suppose a lot of people would call the character a gimp and say I hindered the parties survival, though, since I wasnt much good in a fight. =P

 

[kyloss]

For me its not that i need a high stat its more of a no more that one or two with a penalty and going below six just gets silly some times.

 

[Seeten]

So you are saying that the majority of humans are forgettable?

I would say that there are numerous 10int and 10cha people that we know, interact with, and remember every day.

A 10 int is the guy that builds superconductors. He may not be able to tell you exactly what they do but he would none the less be an interesting conversation for a while.

A 10 int is most authors, good for 1-2 books before they run out of ideas.

A 10 cha is most Aging Rock Stars. They are DOG ugly and still have the girls because they have a high wis/int agent.

A 10 str is your average 20-30 year old that jogs once a week or so and tries to stay in shape.

These are average.

Cliff is an 8 Wisdom and a 10-12 Intelligence, this means that he acts like he is smarter than he is as he knows no better. (He had the right facts, just the wrong numbers... )

Rocky is a 10 charisma. Forgettable except he is the muscle bound clod who can get your butt out of the fire.

Luke Skywalker was a 10 Intelligence.

Peter Parker is a 10 Charisma.

Yes, most humans are forgettable. Totally so. How did Luke Skywalker get all those force skills in so little time, if he was so average? He sure didnt do it in the Star Wars RPG D20 game. My Jedi Consular is level 7 with a 16 int, and I can barely afford 2 ranks per skill(over the course of the entire 7 levels).

Peter Parker is a total ******* and I hate him. I agree with your assessment. Rocky is a dink. I dont aspire to play Rocky. Cliff is a twit. In fact, he is plain annoying.

Cha doesnt drop with age. Many rock stars still have their personal charisma. It isnt their agent bringing in the girls. Trading on reputation is also good. The 10 int superconductor builder is a line worker, not a phd. The phd guy is smarter than average, or, he is a viciously hard worker, in D&D terms, a level 15 expert with a ton of skill ranks. If so, he's a high level mook. My father isnt brilliant, and he has a phd. He's smarter than average, but not by much, he got by with excessive work. By being "higher level" than everyone else. In D&D, you cant be higher level than everyone else. It isnt fair. So in order to be the "brilliant physicist" you need to have a decent int. Sorry.

My opinion. YMMV.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I think this is one of the problems, people think some classes need all sortsof high abilities to be effective. Monks get good unarmed damage, they don't need high strength.

Proof positive that Crothian has never played a monk.

 

[Wystan]

I personally think that Force Powers relate more to wisdom and stregth of personality.

If I was to stat Luke as a D&D Character he would be as follows:

Str 12
Con 13
Dex 15
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 14

Not a bad character, not a god either.

Vader would be as follows:

Str 17 (enhanced with Robotics)
Con 13 (18 in the suit, personal space suit type thing)
Dex 13
Int 12
Wis 17
Cha 14

Truthfully, none of the Jedi's in Star Wars strike me as smart.

Another approach, Han Solo

Str: 12
Con 13
Dex 16
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 14

Still about average on a lot of the stats, but average is just that, an average. So almost every human excels or is underrepresented in something.

Wierd Al

Str 10
Con ??
Dex 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 11

Easy to state that any stat is important, but there is no needed highest stat.

 

[billd91]

I am inspired by tales like Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars. I like high fantasy. Maybe its just a style difference, after all. I want to be the grand hero the epic tales will be sung of, not the level 3 slob who died in a ditch with all 11's for stats. But as I say, I have played a 9 str fighter with no appreciable physical stat to speak of. I had a lot of fun with it. Mind you, the fighter had high charisma, and was noble, and intelligent, and wise. Good roleplaying.

Well, you clearly prefer to play characters that have high int, wis, cha no matter what their role in the party, based on your contributions to this thread.
A friend of mine came up with one of the most memorable characters I've ever seen in a game. Brol, the half-ogre. His Int, Wis, and Cha were all single digits, 8 or lower. He was pretty strong, but nothing to write home about compared to other PCs. But he was very memorable because he was fairly dumb, unperceptive, foolish, and not very articulate.
In one situation, while he was on watch, he was approached by the evil priestess we were trying to track down and she convinced him to give her the map we needed to find a great evil artifact. When asked what happened he said:

"Brol trade map to pretty lady."
"And what did she give you?"
"A kiss."
"A kiss!?! You had better have gotten more than a kiss for that map!"
"... There's more?"

Very memorable character with mostly low to mediocre stats. The player found the role he wanted to play and had us enjoying it even though he had done something to hinder our efforts. Good role-playing.

I'm not entirely certain that LotR makes a good example of playing high-stat characters unless you're talking exclusively about Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and Boromir. The hobbits, arguably, are pretty normal folk. Pippin and Merry, not really standing out in any way by D&D stat terms, could certainly be considered as mediocre-stat characters. And yet, they end up as important heroes in the story.

 

[Storm Raven]

I'd rather play the Fellowship from Lord of the Rings, with their heroic stats, than play Haldir, with his 10's 12's and a 14, destined to little more than being a miniature on a battlemat.

Do you really think that Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippen had "heroic" stats?