Do you run or play in a Sandbox or Linear game

[Remathilis]

Well, yes. Of course. I'm merely referring to the somewhat faddish interpretation I've seen in recent months that a "pure sandbox" is actually a desireable state of affairs rather than a theoretical endpoint on a spectrum. Naturally different people have different places on the spectrum where they prefer to game, but the actual extreme case is one... well, extreme. It's not a mainstream place to game, it's an extreme niche place to game, and few gamers enjoy such niche gaming.

It reminds me of economic market theory: we have on one side monopoly (one seller alone for a good) and the other perfect competition (infinite number of sellers for a good). Neither exist in reality, but there are some things that come so close to it (AT&T in the 80's, the Stock Market) that they get called those terms, because they come close.

Some games are fairly linear (APs for example) but allow for multiple "stops" and "alternate paths" off the road. Others are fairly "sandbox" but take on the feel of a linear game once the PCs "commit" to a plan of action (such as finishing a module, clearing out a dungeon, etc).

Like those economic models, they are both undesirable and unrealistic extremes, but people continue to strive for one side to avoid the other.

 

[Garmorn]

Well, yes. Of course. I'm merely referring to the somewhat faddish interpretation I've seen in recent months that a "pure sandbox" is actually a desireable state of affairs rather than a theoretical endpoint on a spectrum. Naturally different people have different places on the spectrum where they prefer to game, but the actual extreme case is one... well, extreme. It's not a mainstream place to game, it's an extreme niche place to game, and few gamers enjoy such niche gaming.

And I was trying to back up your statements. Even if a DM could make an interesting campaign at one extreme or the other I don't think any (but a very small handful) would enjoy them.

In real life you have something in between. You have options but don't have a free hand to any thing you want. You always have options, they all might be horrible options as far as your concerned especially if you live in very strict society.

 

[Ariosto]

I think some kinds of scenarios tend to work out better with more structure -- "detective story" set-ups, for instance. The board game Clue has both a hard limit, in the confined space of the board, and a formalism guiding play into an appropriate stereotype. Just the agreement up front as to the object of the scenario helps in a big way.

 

[Snoweel]

I think some kinds of scenarios tend to work out better with more structure -- "detective story" set-ups, for instance. The board game Clue has both a hard limit, in the confined space of the board, and a formalism guiding play into an appropriate stereotype. Just the agreement up front as to the object of the scenario helps in a big way.

Absolutely.

 

[Garmorn]

I think some kinds of scenarios tend to work out better with more structure -- "detective story" set-ups, for instance. The board game Clue has both a hard limit, in the confined space of the board, and a formalism guiding play into an appropriate stereotype. Just the agreement up front as to the object of the scenario helps in a big way.

Heck some settings work best with a rigid sturcture. One of my wife's favorite games is called Prime Directive. You have to rail road your players from one adventure to another. After all they are military personnel. (Star Trek - Starfleet special op types for landing parties.) Even the equipment is suppose to be assigned each and every adventure.

 

[Beginning of the End]

Heck some settings work best with a rigid sturcture. One of my wife's favorite games is called Prime Directive. You have to rail road your players from one adventure to another. After all they are military personnel. (Star Trek - Starfleet special op types for landing parties.) Even the equipment is suppose to be assigned each and every adventure.

I would like to postulate that you can still have a sandbox even if you explicitly define the limits of the sandbox to not include the teeter-totter.

If I'm running a campaign set in L.A., then the PCs might have complete sandbox-style freedom within the city limits. But if one of them decides to hop a plane and fly to Hong Kong, then they've gone beyond the limits of the campaign.

Similarly, I don't think that a sandbox campaign stops being a sandbox if the PCs decide to buy a detective agency and go into business.

Ergo, I don't think such campaign styles require or even "work best" in a non-sandbox structure. They simply work differently.

 

[Garmorn]

I would like to postulate that you can still have a sandbox even if you explicitly define the limits of the sandbox to not include the teeter-totter.

If I'm running a campaign set in L.A., then the PCs might have complete sandbox-style freedom within the city limits. But if one of them decides to hop a plane and fly to Hong Kong, then they've gone beyond the limits of the campaign.

Similarly, I don't think that a sandbox campaign stops being a sandbox if the PCs decide to buy a detective agency and go into business.

Ergo, I don't think such campaign styles require or even "work best" in a non-sandbox structure. They simply work differently.

Your examples don't match mine. Per the setting the PC are given missions, equipment and objectives chosen by the Ship commander (GM) for each adventure. There is a diffident start and stop for each mission. There are set goals and resources. Even the area is predefined. This is the expected norm for the setting. (A highly trained special ops unit.)

To bring your suggestion close to mine, change the characters to a specially trained SWAT Team that only goes out on special calls (The DM picks each mission). How sand box can you make that?

 

[Beginning of the End]

Your examples don't match mine. Per the setting the PC are given missions, equipment and objectives chosen by the Ship commander (GM) for each adventure. There is a diffident start and stop for each mission. There are set goals and resources. Even the area is predefined. This is the expected norm for the setting. (A highly trained special ops unit.)

Per the setting the PCs are given missions, equipment, and objectives by the Wizard in the Tower (GM) for each adventure. There is a definite start and stop for each mission. There are set goals and resources. Even the area is predefined. This is the expected norm for the setting.

Ergo, it's impossible to run a sandbox in a fantasy campaign, right?

... I get that you run that milieu the way you run that milieu. But there are other ways to run that milieu.

 

[Snoweel]

Per the setting the PCs are given missions, equipment, and objectives by the Wizard in the Tower (GM) for each adventure. There is a definite start and stop for each mission. There are set goals and resources. Even the area is predefined. This is the expected norm for the setting.

Ergo, it's impossible to run a sandbox in a fantasy campaign, right?

... I get that you run that milieu the way you run that milieu. But there are other ways to run that milieu.

I think you've completely misunderstood.

You've just replaced 'modern cop' with 'fantasy' (when you were invited to stick with modern cop) and completely missed the episodic nature of the campaign.

Then you've finished up by sarcastically drawing a false conclusion, second guessing a point that Garmorn wasn't trying to make in the first place.

 

[Hussar]

I'd say I'd rank somewhere about a 7 on the linear scale. I prefer games with plots and events that are specifically keyed to the PC's.

I've been toying with a new approach for my next campaign. It's an SF game, not D&D, but, I think the style might work in fantasy as well. I have a very strong central plot that involves the PC's that will unfold over a series of scenarios. However, between these scenarios, I can foresee a fair bit of down time.

My idea is to work with the players before hand, during character creation, and get some ideas from them on goals they would like to achieve with their characters within the setting. The campaign would then alternate between the main plot and these side stories, with the players having a great deal of control over the side stories.

I'm thinking about a 50/50 split of "screen time" between the two.

I haven't nailed down all the details yet, but, that's my initial concept.