Do you think Eberron will go the way of Ghostwalk?

[buzz]

I suggest trying the Wilderlands campaign setting - one of it's design goals is an attempt to emphasise these bits, and further, politically incorrect ones like dancing girls and amazons that don't make the cut into WotC product as a general rule.

Actually, Wilderlands is the campaign my Saturday group is starting in a couple of weeks.

As for design goals... I think the "naughty bits" are there mostly because they're part of the original Judge's Guild version from the '70s. Though dancing girls and amazons are certianly pulpy...

 

[WizarDru]

Greyhawk has the same problem though not quite so bad. Instead of Elminster you've got Mordenkainen who is supposed to be the end-all-be-all Wizard in that setting. Not quite as benevolent but he is always there in case the going gets too bad.

Not even in the same zip code, really. Mord's not a good guy, for one thing, he's just interested in keeping everyone down. The most powerful NPCs in Greyhawk (and there are far, far fewer than Faerun) are spread out and not nearly as powerful. Compare Mord's stats to Eliminster's, for a start. Notice how the ELH has tons of Epic-level NPCs for FR, but only a couple for Greyhawk. And that's after they were upgraded from the 3E launch, where most of them were 16-19th level...while characters in the FRCS were epic at day one (albeit before the ELH ruleset).

I'm not saying the PCs are made irrelevant in FR...I actually don't use the setting. Just that there's evidence that Greyhawk has less potential to overshadow the PCs than the Realms.

 

[~Johnny~]

if you do not think it is steampunk than what genre or mixture of genres would you describe it as?

I'd describe it as fantasy, but there are a few elements that might appeal to the same people who like steampunk, or turn off people who don't. It's primarily a fantasy world built around the D&D ruleset, with a few tweaks to set it apart from other generic-fantasy settings like Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms.

"Steampunk" generally refers to a Victorian-style setting where industrial age technology is combined with magic. It usually includes strong themes of magic/nature vs. technology. Guns are a common thing to include, and 19th-century clothing is common. Eberron includes none of the above.

Eberron is a world where applied magic has grown in place of applied science. There won't be magic telephones or magic cars (unless you decide to homebrew them), but the spells in the Player's Handbook have been applied in logical ways. Major cities will have continual flame streetlights. A new NPC class, the magewright, has access to cantrips and minor spells that improve the speed and quality of basic crafting. The unusually magical city of Sharn has magically-augmented architecture and a network of levitating stone platforms. This is all pretty "high magic" stuff, but it's not ubiquitous, and it only goes up to a certain level. War is still fought with swords and bows, teleportation networks do not exist, and the highest level (friendly) NPC is a 16th-level cleric who can't leave her god's temple.

Eberron does feature some elements that remind people of steampunk. One is a race of living constructs called warforged. They're made of wood and metal, but they're animated through magic rather than gears and electricity. To some people they're still too much like "robots," but they're presented as golems with souls. There are also airships, but they aren't zeppelins or steam-powered iron. They are medieval-looking ships powered by bound elementals. Finally, there's the Lightning Rail, which is the one example of a magically-enhanced device that's decidedly anachronistic-looking. Again, though, it's a bunch of stone and iron that levitates along a path, not an example of an engine that transforms magic into propulsion, or something. The Lightning Rail system is also a unique, wondrous thing that doesn't represent the overall look of the world.

Personally, I see the above stuff as flavor. It's good as long as it's integrated well, and the preview materials suggest to me that it will be. If it intruded on mechanics, if anyone could build mana-powered engines or characters carried guns, that would cross the line into "not D&D." Check out the Eberron Journal's gallery of concept art. None of that stuff says "not D&D" to me.

 

[Morgenstern]

I suggest trying the Wilderlands campaign setting - one of it's design goals is an attempt to emphasise these bits, and further, politically incorrect ones like dancing girls and amazons that don't make the cut into WotC product as a general rule.

You want dancing girls?

*scribble-scribble*

Sounds good to me , let there be dancing girls!

 

[rounser]

You want dancing girls?

No, actually I could care less about dancing girls (a bit tacky, strictly speaking), but it's symptomatic of a setting design approach that isn't going to compromise in terms of old fantasy tropes...fields of black lotus, that sort of vein.

 

[Ranger REG]

While I have a rudimentary knowledge of pulp, which more of a storytelling device, how does one educate himself to perform pulp-style storytelling? I mean it's not like those "film noir" thing, where either an actor or cast have to narrate out their thoughts and intended action, is it?

 

[Morgenstern]

No, actually I could care less about dancing girls (a bit tacky, strictly speaking), but it's symptomatic of a setting design approach that isn't going to compromise in terms of old fantasy tropes...fields of black lotus, that sort of vein.

I'm sure that made perfect sense to you , but honestly, I'm not following the direction you're going with that last bit.

 

[~Johnny~]

While I have a rudimentary knowledge of pulp, which more of a storytelling device, how does one educate himself to perform pulp-style storytelling?

A typical D&D campaign is probably already using pulp-style storytelling. It's the side of D&D that's a little more action-oriented, less cerebral, maybe a bit more campy. To really dig into it, you could read some old pulp stories like Doc Savage. As mentioned above, Conan is pulp fantasy, so that's another direction you could go. Star Wars and Indiana Jones are both more modern descendents of pulpy sci-fi and pulp action stories. The recent movie Hellboy also captures the pulp feel.

I mean it's not like those "film noir" thing, where either an actor or cast have to narrate out their thoughts and intended action, is it?

Pulp and noir are two separate genre descriptions, but sometimes they get mixed together. (For example, I'd say The Shadow is a pulp/noir character.) "Film noir" was a trend that started in the 1930's, in which movies basically had darker themes and used darker lighting at the same time. Many were detective stories, which often included internal narration. Most people these days only know film noir through goofy spoofs of film noir.

Applied to D&D, the "noir" description refers to more character-oriented stories where things aren't always black and white. In the words of the first Eberron preview, noir means "a world painted in shades of gray, where not every friend is an ally and not every villain is an enemy."

So in case the last quote in my post above didn't make sense, here's how the "pulp/noir" description applies to D&D:

pulp = swashbuckling action
noir = uncertainty and intrigue

The designers of Eberron have set up places where these elements will be particularly at home, but ultimately the DM and players determine a game's feel.

 

[Ranger REG]

Most people these days only know film noir through goofy spoofs of film noir.

Actually, my recent exposure to such goofy spoofs is through Drew Carey's improv show, Whose Line is it Anyway?

But I can see how it can help players to be creative and encourage roleplaying participation, through their own character's internal narration.

Then again, these are just random thoughts...

 

[Bendris Noulg]

For anyone interested in a recent and fairly well-done (although unfortunately short) modern noir-style tale, check out Detective Story from The Animatrix.