D&D 5E Do you think we'll see revised core books in 2024? (And why I think we will)

Do you think we'll see revised core rulebooks in 2024? And if so, which option?


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imagineGod

Legend
So it's bad-wrong-fun to have monsters? Do vampires need to sparkle in the sun? Is being a werewolf just a power-up? Is someone who loosely bases their imagery on LOTR doing it wrong?
Is that your take? I see recent D&D books actually discuss bad-wrong-fun. There is a whole callout in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft telling people to stop playing games a certain way and to stop being inspired by genre tropes.

Hence, I expect 50th Anniversary Editions of Dungeon and Dragons will either ignore that modern trend and return to the design philosophy of Gary Gygax, or more probably, just reinforce the bad-wrong-fun callouts and distance modern designs further from the Gary Gygax vision. The future of D&D rests on that 50th Anniversary.
 

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Oofta

Legend
Is that your take? I see recent D&D books actually discuss bad-wrong-fun. There is a whole callout in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft telling people to stop playing games a certain way and to stop being inspired by genre tropes.

Hence, I expect 50th Anniversary Editions of Dungeon and Dragons will either ignore that modern trend and return to the design philosophy of Gary Gygax, or more probably, just reinforce the bad-wrong-fun callouts and distance modern designs further from the Gary Gygax vision. The future of D&D rests on that 50th Anniversary.
My "take" is that historically there have been some poor writing decisions in D&D products but it's been relatively minor. Some things should be fixed, but D&D doesn't need to be reinvented to only have purring kittens and happy puppies.

I also don't go around telling people that their playing the game wrong because they don't play it exactly like I do.
 

imagineGod

Legend
My "take" is that historically there have been some poor writing decisions in D&D products but it's been relatively minor. Some things should be fixed, but D&D doesn't need to be reinvented to only have purring kittens and happy puppies.

I also don't go around telling people that their playing the game wrong because they don't play it exactly like I do.
Exactly, in a true open world game, which originally was the premise of Gary Gygax's and Dave Arneson's D&D, the PCs should have the freedom to use the games mechanics to do anything, even this., yes,even the computer game Skyrim accepts the murder hobo style of play can be fun.

 


Reynard

Legend
Yup. That’s why in 2024 it will be 6E and it will be as different (less) as 2E was from 1E.
I don't think 2E is as similar to 1E as folks like to think. The entire aesthetic changes, the kinds of worlds and modules published were very different, and it shed a lot of fiddly Gygaxian rules. It is true that you can run 1E material easily with 2E but that isn't the same as saying 2E wasn't markedly different.
 

Right now it is gen-x and boomers writing for millennials and gen z. Pretty soon it will be millennials and gen z doing most of the writing. Things will change.
Thompson and Mearls were Millennials. Barely, but still Millennials
Crawford is likely about the same
And they've hired a half-dozen new staff that is their age or younger
And all the young freelancers working for the game are either old Zoomers or young Millennials

Things did change. You just weren't looking
 

imagineGod

Legend
I have one of the last Dragonlance First Edition AD&D sourcebooks and it states both AD&D 1st and 2nd compatibility by including THAC0 for 2nd in stat blocks, but still usable with tables of 1st Ed.
 

dave2008

Legend
Were you guys around for the 30th anniversary?

How about the 40th anniversary?

So...what is the thinking that the 50th is going to be any different?
50th is a bigger deal than 30th or 40th? It is also the 10th year of the edition so that makes it a good time to tweak things a bit
 

dave2008

Legend
The biggest change in the 2024 Anniversary Edition will be the Monster Manual.

Compared to the original 5th Edition Monster Manual, we will finally get the official stance ftom Wizard of the Coast that bad-wrong-fun exists and.unwanted by WoTC,. And that leads to public showing new buyers that probably Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson are no longer role models for D&D design philosophy.

So the 50th Anniversary is a seismic event for the fandom.
What do you mean? I can't make heads or tales of this comment. Is it some type of I side joke I am u aware of?
 

Aldarc

Legend
Thompson and Mearls were Millennials. Barely, but still Millennials
Crawford is likely about the same
And they've hired a half-dozen new staff that is their age or younger
And all the young freelancers working for the game are either old Zoomers or young Millennials

Things did change. You just weren't looking
How are Thompson, Mearls, or Crawford counted among the Millennials?

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Mercurius

Legend
I think Mearls is in his mid-40s, so is a Gen-Xer.

There's a common trope among younger generations that anyone older than 40 (or even 30) is a "Boomer." I don't think there is any cutoff for this "OK Boomer" phenomena, but I think really what they're saying is, "OK Digital Immigrant" - meaning, anyone who "migrated" to the internet and digital media after the ubiquity of the internet in the mid-90s. Meaning, 25 years ago - so anyone 35 or older is consider a "Boomer" and thus out of touch. I think it is all fun and games, but it is a mis-use of the word.

If we use Strauss & Howe, the two folks that popularized generational theory, we get:

Silent Gen (b. 1925-42) - turning 79-96 this year.
Boomers (b. 1943-60) - 61-78.
Gen X (b. 1961-81) - 40-60.
Millenials (b. 1982-2004): 17-39.
Homeland/Z (b. 2005-?): 16 and under.

There are no official or fully agreed upon year ranges, but I think Strauss-Howe is as good as any. Interesting to note that Mr Gygax was Silent Gen, although most of the first wave of designers (1970s-80s) were Boomers, including Dave Arneson, Ed Greenwood, Zeb Cook, Jennell Jaquays, James Ward, Jeff Grubb, N Robin Crossby, Tracy Hickman, Margaret Weis, Steve Jackson, RA Salvatore, etc. The "second wave" designers that created White Wolf and the 90s and OGL stuff (so, 90s-00s) were centered on Gen-Xers: guys like Mark Rein-Hagen, Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Erik Mona, Wolfgang Baur, etc.

Perkins (b. 1968), Mearls (b. 1975?), and Thompson (b. 1980) are all Gen Xers. Not sure about Jeremy Crawford.

The above names are just a random sampling of better known designers and not meant to be exhaustive. But you'll note that almost all of the are men and, I think, all white. So in addition to generational considerations, we are seeing more people of color and women designing games, so changes will reflect that as well. So the "third wave" (10s-20s) are centered on Millenials and Zers, at least in terms of aesthetic and socio-cultural norms.

That said, Gen Xers still make up a sizeable portion of the gaming population--and there are a bunch of actual Boomers hanging around as the Elders of the RPG community. But the new "boom" is something like 90% Millenials and Zers. The Gen Xers still playing are likely lifelong gamers, and may also live longer than previous generations, so I would expect that we'll see millions of Xers part of the hobby for decades to come. So you're not getting rid of us...yet! ;)
 

imagineGod

Legend
Nobody remembers Gen-X. Must be all the ecstacy drugs during raves. That is were Boomers are better. Just weed then.

Gen-Z I thought those were Zennials. Never thought they would associate with Homelander on their superhero team.
 


Mercurius

Legend
Nobody remembers Gen-X. Must be all the ecstacy drugs during raves. That is were Boomers are better. Just weed then.

Gen-Z I thought those were Zennials. Never thought they would associate with Homelander on their superhero team.
Funny. I think Gen-X is relatively quiet and late-blooming. I call them (us) the Slacker generation. But we're also the first generation raised during and after the cultural revolution of the 60s, so many were instilled with non-traditional values around work ethic and achievement (for better or worse).

Strauss-Howe theory discusses four generation cycles or "Saeculums", of Prophet, Nomad, Hero, Artist, which corresponds with Boomer, X, Millenial, and Z, or the "Millenial Saeculum." I think the basic idea is that the Prophet initiates the idea, the Nomad explores it, the Hero actualizes it, and the Artist transforms it creatively. Or something like that.
At this point, we might as well just go by decades.

Born 20s and 30s: Silents
Born 40s and 50s: Boomers
Born 60s and 70s: X-ers
Born 80s and 90s: Millennials
Born 00s and 10s: Z-ers (or Zoomers)
That's pretty much how I see it, at least as a quick-and-easy determination. Technically the "Baby Boom" didn't start until 1946, though, with all those horny soldiers returning home. I think, also, that many on the cusp of generations identify with both, or may even identify with the generation before or after their own. And each generation has "sub-generations." There is a difference, for instance, between Gen-Xers born in the 60s, the early 70s, and late 70s/early 80s. The first sub-gen has strong Boomer leanings, while the third sub-gen has strong Millenial leanings.

All of this is an abstract system and prone to generalizing, but I think very interesting nonetheless. It also helps explain a lot of trends and changes.
 

imagineGod

Legend
At this point, we might as well just go by decades.

Born 20s and 30s: Silents
Born 40s and 50s: Boomers
Born 60s and 70s: X-ers (or Slackers)
Born 80s and 90s: Millennials
Born 00s and 10s: Z-ers (or Zoomers)
Never heard of Slackers either for Gen-X, though if we. look at the richest billionaires from that generation like Elon Musk of Tesla/Space-X or Jeff Bezos of Amazon, I can imagine those guys picked up the slack for the other many slackers. There is logic there I see now.

Even with the list of Gen-X games designers that defined 2nd Edition, 3rd Edition and 4th Edition D&D, there were less Indies then, so maybe again picking up the slack for others.
 

Egon Spengler

"We eat gods for breakfast!"
At this point, it's really difficult to say whether we'll see a 5.5e or a 6th edition. But WotC has done the revision/soft reboot thing twice before (3.5e, Essentials), so maybe they'll do it again in an effort to keep the edition alive for as long as they can manage it.

What I do know is, when 6th edition does finally come out, it won't be compatible with 5th edition, because backwards-compatibility is not WotC's forte. And that's probably a good thing, because 5e combat has problems (mild understatement). WotC has a lot of work ahead of them, regardless.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
I voted 5.1-5.2, not because I don't think there will be a lot of changes, but because I think most of those changes will be expansion, rather than revision. Everything from 5.0 will still be in the 2024 edition, along with lots of new options pulled from Xanthers and Tashas along with some bits from other published bits (Wildmount?). I could also see them presenting the Tasha race/lineage rules as the default, with the old rules as an option.
In other words, anyone who has all of the books now will have no NEED to purchase 5.1 for anything new, but may elect to do so anyhow to have those pieces in one reference. 5.1 will be about how new players are introduced to the game to come more in line with where 5e is evolving without requiring purchase of multiple books to get those rules.
 


Mercurius

Legend
I voted 5.1-5.2, not because I don't think there will be a lot of changes, but because I think most of those changes will be expansion, rather than revision. Everything from 5.0 will still be in the 2024 edition, along with lots of new options pulled from Xanthers and Tashas along with some bits from other published bits (Wildmount?). I could also see them presenting the Tasha race/lineage rules as the default, with the old rules as an option.
In other words, anyone who has all of the books now will have no NEED to purchase 5.1 for anything new, but may elect to do so anyhow to have those pieces in one reference. 5.1 will be about how new players are introduced to the game to come more in line with where 5e is evolving without requiring purchase of multiple books to get those rules.
I basically agree with this, although I voted 5.3-5.5, but clarified I think 5.3 more than 5.4-5.5. So it might just be a matter of semantics and how one views the difference between "5.2" and "5.3." I voted 5.3-5.5, because while I think they'll do pretty much what you say they'll do, I think that adding new options and tweaks like the Tasha stuff--plus reworkings of certain classes--constitutes enough of a shift to be characterized as "5.3." But again, it could mostly be semantics.

If I were to re-do the poll I would do what I did a year or so ago, and offer distinctions between 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, and 6. Something like:

5.1 Cosmetic only - possibly including new art, cover, errata, organization, but no new rules.
5.2 As above, but new stuff added (e.g. subclasses), but no structural changes to the rules. Old and new options included, although what is default might be shifted.
5.3 As above, including a few moderate changes, including changes in what is default, such as alignment and racial bonuses, plus some re-workings of classes and races. No structural changes, except for possibly a minor tweak or two. May take out a few elements, but only minor stuff (e.g. swapping one subclass out for another). Backwards compatibility is easy and can be eye-balled.
5.4 As above, but adding in further minor-to-moderate structural changes and additions. Backwards compatibility is relatively easy, and can be done on the fly by a knowledgable or savvy DM, but may benefit from a "cheatsheet" at the back of the book.
5.5 As above, but more changes and additions, including some structural; possibly one or two significant changes that make backwards compatibility difficult in some cases. A cheatsheet would be highly recommended.
6E True new game, with significant changes. Backwards compatibility may be possible, but requires some kind of conversion guide.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
Never heard of Slackers either for Gen-X, though if we. look at the richest billionaires from that generation like Elon Musk of Tesla/Space-X or Jeff Bezos of Amazon, I can imagine those guys picked up the slack for the other many slackers. There is logic there I see now.

Even with the list of Gen-X games designers that defined 2nd Edition, 3rd Edition and 4th Edition D&D, there were less Indies then, so maybe again picking up the slack for others.
I heard the phrase mainly as "the slacker generation".

The X-ers are both highly idealistic and highly skeptical about using "success" to determine a persons worth.

The generations before the X-ers worked so hard to make sure their kids lives would be better than their own lives. But by the time of the X-ers, that ambition became economically unrealistic. The X-ers experienced the death of the "American Dream" (except for a tiny economic elite). But the X-ers didnt really care about that stuff anyway, so it was no big deal.
 

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