GX.Sigma
Adventurer
I think that's what the saving throw represents.
Dodging Fireballs and other Readied Action Sheneigans
- Thread starter Starfox
- Start date
Warbringer
Explorer
How I miss spellcasting times and non-turned based combat.
"You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely."
So, are the first two sentences separate conditions of the spell. If so, you can ready against glowing pea sized bead and the caster cannot retarget. If they are the same condition, she can retarget.
Unfortunately, there are no phases in the spell.
Personally, I love the idea of readying an action to throw an obstacle into the path of the fireball
"You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely."
So, are the first two sentences separate conditions of the spell. If so, you can ready against glowing pea sized bead and the caster cannot retarget. If they are the same condition, she can retarget.
Unfortunately, there are no phases in the spell.
Personally, I love the idea of readying an action to throw an obstacle into the path of the fireball
Ahnehnois
First Post
Choices made as part of casting a spell are made at the completion of casting. Could you ready an action to move if someone cast fireball? Sure But "The action occurs just before the action that triggers it", meaning that you move, and the caster can change his mind about where to aim it.
Could you ready to move just before the explosion itself? That I don't see as being a viable condition for a readied action, though the rules are pretty vague on that.
In any case, you would have to know the spell was coming, and make a pretty specific declaration when readying, which seems interesting as a thought experiment/corner case but hardly a viable tactic in most game situations. After all, if the caster does something else, you've just wasted your turn.
Could you ready to move just before the explosion itself? That I don't see as being a viable condition for a readied action, though the rules are pretty vague on that.
In any case, you would have to know the spell was coming, and make a pretty specific declaration when readying, which seems interesting as a thought experiment/corner case but hardly a viable tactic in most game situations. After all, if the caster does something else, you've just wasted your turn.
Warbringer
Explorer
tomBitonti
Hero
To my understanding ...
Some additional factors which should be considered:
*) Knowing when a spell is being cast is not automatic. A check is required. Note that obtaining an AOO because of a cast spell doesn't mean that you know that a spell is being cast, just that the opponent has done something to lower their defenses. I would say that you do automatically know when your opponents defenses are down, unless there is an attempt to misdirect (via bluff).
*) Knowing what spell is being cast, even if you know that a spell is being cast, is not automatic. That requires a spellcraft check.
*) Knowing the details of the spell, for example, the target location for a fireball, is not automatic, even if you know that a fireball is being cast. (Maybe, the initial spellcraft check would tell you this.)
*) You *could perhaps* ready for "when a glowing red bead is shot by the opponent, and gets to within 30'" to "move perpendicular to the line of motion of the bead, to 30' from that line of motion", or something to that effect. That would require a ruling that the spell effect is not instantaneous.
There is a similar case of a caster shooting a fireball through a window, and a player readying to block the window with a shield as large as the window opening. Could you ready to block a window on the condition that "an arrow, ray, or projectile effect of any sort is shot at the window"?
I'm not seeing a problem with readying to attack an opponent who enters range of a reach weapon. That actually would subject the opponent with potentially two attacks, if they are charging: One for the readied attack, and one for moving out of a threatened square, assuming they must continue to move to put you within their reach.
Thx!
TomB
Some additional factors which should be considered:
*) Knowing when a spell is being cast is not automatic. A check is required. Note that obtaining an AOO because of a cast spell doesn't mean that you know that a spell is being cast, just that the opponent has done something to lower their defenses. I would say that you do automatically know when your opponents defenses are down, unless there is an attempt to misdirect (via bluff).
*) Knowing what spell is being cast, even if you know that a spell is being cast, is not automatic. That requires a spellcraft check.
*) Knowing the details of the spell, for example, the target location for a fireball, is not automatic, even if you know that a fireball is being cast. (Maybe, the initial spellcraft check would tell you this.)
*) You *could perhaps* ready for "when a glowing red bead is shot by the opponent, and gets to within 30'" to "move perpendicular to the line of motion of the bead, to 30' from that line of motion", or something to that effect. That would require a ruling that the spell effect is not instantaneous.
There is a similar case of a caster shooting a fireball through a window, and a player readying to block the window with a shield as large as the window opening. Could you ready to block a window on the condition that "an arrow, ray, or projectile effect of any sort is shot at the window"?
I'm not seeing a problem with readying to attack an opponent who enters range of a reach weapon. That actually would subject the opponent with potentially two attacks, if they are charging: One for the readied attack, and one for moving out of a threatened square, assuming they must continue to move to put you within their reach.
Thx!
TomB
Warbringer
Explorer
Can you provide a citation, as that is not my reading of the spell
Loren Pechtel
Explorer
Yes and no. I would permit it but reduce it to giving him improved evasion rather than an auto-succeed. However, there will be situations where it won't work.
Say, for example, you're in a 10' corridor and you see a fireball coming your way, what do you do? Your options are basically ahead 30' or retreat 30' and you'll have to decide this without knowing when the fireball will burst. Lets say the wizard guesses correctly that you're planning to jump forward--he sets the fireball to blow 15' in front of you. You're still in the blast zone. On the other hand, if he guesses back and you jump forward you're fine.
Loren Pechtel
Explorer
I would not permit this--if you're in the area of effect you're already being hit.
You have to go on the information you have before the spell goes off. "If the wizard casts an AOE spell" would be fine but you don't know where it's going to hit unless it shows signs (see my above post regarding fireballs), you'll just have to specify where you're going.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#aimingASpell
Target or Targets
Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
Of course this technically only applies to target and not area spells but as area spells make no mention of when the area is selected I guess this applies, too.
