Dodging Fireballs and other Readied Action Sheneigans

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't agree with this.

For instance, charge is a single action - so by this account you can't ready an action to (say) stab a person with your longspear as s/he charges you from 20' away - because before the action the charger is outside reach, and once the action is completled the charger is adjacent and has already rolled his/her attack against you.

Also, this sentence seems confused:

If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character.​

How can the triggered action be part of another character's activities? Presumably what is meant is "if the triggering action is part of another character's activities." Or, perhaps "if the triggering condition is part of another character's activities".

I do agree about the miswording and your analysis of what it should say. However, I think this is specifically aimed at things like the charging--you can ready an attack with that spear if he gets close enough.

 

[tomBitonti]

To say, readied actions work on triggers, which break through the game grammar to the underlying description of what is happening. A readied action *can* trigger in the middle of an action. That action is "paused" with remaining parts incomplete until the readied action completes, then resumes and completes (if possible).

That is, a readied action can use a condition of "when an opponent attacks Ferdie", and if Ferdie is attacked second in a three attack full round attack action, the readied action goes off before Ferdie is attacked, interrupting the full round action.

A careful question does arise, which is to decide what parts of the trigger have completed when the readied action goes off. If my readied action is to cast a wall of stone between the attacker and Ferdie, then, is the attack lost, or, can it be given a new target?

Thx!

TomB

 

[Starfox]

DM: Right, but your condition is to move when you see the glow. But as it is an instantaneous effect you only see the glow AS it happens. You can't move AS something is happening. Only BEFORE it happens. Ergo, if you try and run away BEFORE he throws the fireball (but presumably after he cast, and is then forced to finish) then he can re-adjust and hit you in your new square. You can't act AT THE SAME TIME as the effect, only BEFORE. So.. roll reflex.

This is not how readied actions work by RAW. The readied action happens before its triggering condition. Unreasonable in some cases - thus the humor in the initial question.

I would not permit this--if you're in the area of effect you're already being hit.

You have to go on the information you have before the spell goes off. "If the wizard casts an AOE spell" would be fine but you don't know where it's going to hit unless it shows signs (see my above post regarding fireballs), you'll just have to specify where you're going.

Again, readies actions by RAW happen before their triggering condition. You are in effect predicting what will happen and reacting to that.

In both these cases, your rulings are reasonable house rules, but it is not RAW.

How much detail you have to give about what you are going to do when your triggering condition happens is open to interpretation tough. I can accept that you must say where you are going to run when you ready the action.

 

[Starfox]

Choices made as part of casting a spell are made at the completion of casting. Could you ready an action to move if someone cast fireball? Sure But "The action occurs just before the action that triggers it", meaning that you move, and the caster can change his mind about where to aim it.

That's why you ready on the condition of an area effect in your square. Us barbarians don't know or care if the robed guy is just waving hands or casting spell, but we recognize a wall of flame. And by then the casting is long since done.

Condition != action.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Again, readies actions by RAW happen before their triggering condition. You are in effect predicting what will happen and reacting to that.

In both these cases, your rulings are reasonable house rules, but it is not RAW.

How much detail you have to give about what you are going to do when your triggering condition happens is open to interpretation tough. I can accept that you must say where you are going to run when you ready the action.

No, I'm making the spellcraft check to see that he's just cast an AOE spell. That looks perfectly permissible to me. (And the flip side is that if you don't make the spellcraft check you don't know what's coming down and you totally wasted the round.)

 

[Ahnehnois]

That's why you ready on the condition of an area effect in your square. Us barbarians don't know or care if the robed guy is just waving hands or casting spell, but we recognize a wall of flame. And by then the casting is long since done.

Condition != action.

It's true that condition is not the same as action. However, the definition of condition is open to interpretation. I would not allow a barbarian to ready an action against an "area effect". What does that even mean to him?

 

[Vegepygmy]

In 3E and later you can ready an action to move out of an area as it is used. So if someone places a ''fireball'' centered on a corner of your sqare, you move 30 ft. and out of the 20 ft. radius of the fireball. Since fireballs always targets areas and not you, there is really no way to avoid this effect - but it costs your action.

As I see it this is perfectly legit, but I still find it rather fishy. Not sure if I'd allow it in game. Still, once or twice it can be a nice trick... It would quickly get old if used often.

It's totally legit by RAW, and not at all fishy IMO. The readied character is watching for an incoming AoE, sees the "glowing, pea-sized bead" streaking from the caster's finger toward him, and runs like hell.

Basically, the readied character is giving up his turn to avoid a single attack that may not even come at all. That's a (very) reasonable trade.

 

[Obryn]

Remember that a rogue, standing in the middle of an empty room, can dodge a fireball's entire effect without ever moving from his spot even if it's targeted right at him.

Using his action to actually bother to get out of the area is small potatoes, in comparison.

-O

 

[Tovec]

To say, readied actions work on triggers, which break through the game grammar to the underlying description of what is happening. A readied action *can* trigger in the middle of an action. That action is "paused" with remaining parts incomplete until the readied action completes, then resumes and completes (if possible).

Show me, quote the SRD, where this is true. Exactly what part says, for example, that you can wait until the fighter has charged the distance (moved but not yet attacked) then use your readied action THEN he cannot attack. As far as I'm reading it if you want to prepare against the charge, there is nothing stopping them from hitting you, you just get to hit them too. It doesn't negate the charge in that case, it just let's you get a stab in, unless I missed something vital.

I see where it says you do something BEFORE he does it. Not WHILE he does it. So I can perfectly understand you moving BEFORE he charges; as the SRD says: "If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action." So, he goes to charge and you move out of the way. You interrupt him, delaying him THEN he goes. He then adjusts and charges you where you are now. I don't see anywhere in the READY description that says you stop the HIT part from going off. Though seeing that seems to be twisting grammar, at least from my standpoint.

That is, a readied action can use a condition of "when an opponent attacks Ferdie", and if Ferdie is attacked second in a three attack full round attack action, the readied action goes off before Ferdie is attacked, interrupting the full round action.

Oh, he would have to specify EXACTLY what he is going to do "when the opponent attacks Ferdie, for the second time". At least that's how I'm reading it. But that is beside the point.

This is not how readied actions work by RAW. The readied action happens before its triggering condition. Unreasonable in some cases - thus the humor in the initial question.

By the time you see the glow on the squares, to know exactly where the wizard ends up lobbing the fireball, it has hit you. It is an instantaneous effect.

It's totally legit by RAW, and not at all fishy IMO. The readied character is watching for an incoming AoE, sees the "glowing, pea-sized bead" streaking from the caster's finger toward him, and runs like hell.

Basically, the readied character is giving up his turn to avoid a single attack that may not even come at all. That's a (very) reasonable trade.

No, it is NOT reasonable. It is part of the effect.

My question to you, Vegepygmy, is this, would you let a character (any character) prepare against an attack using the condition: I prepare against his attack to move so he fails to hit me? Ie. Would you let the fighter come up and take a swing then, after learning whether that is a hit or not allow the person who readied an action move and avoid the damage? I never would and the rules never seem to say this is possible. If he wants to move BEFORE the fighter comes up and does this, or even after he moves up but before he attacks then that is fine. But moving WHILE THE EFFECT IS GOING ON (after the spell is cast - you can see the pea - but before you take the damage to somehow miraculously escape the effect) is not allowed anywhere that I can see.

Again, Starfox's question is this (when applied non-magically):
Player A: I prepare to avoid the damage of the swing by moving out of the way.
Player B: I swing. *pauses*
DM: Well?
Player A: No, I need to know he is actually going to do it and hit before I move, just to make sure I'm not moving for no reason.
DM: .. um.. Okay.. Player B hits, roll damage.
Player A: No, I moved.
DM: No you didn't. You wanted to see if he could actually hit and damage you. That means you stuck around and let yourself get hit.

If you see the fireball's pea or wait for the glow on your square - YOU GET HIT. If you move before that, but presumably after the spell is cast (somehow) then the wizard can redirect the spell.

 

[Tovec]

Remember that a rogue, standing in the middle of an empty room, can dodge a fireball's entire effect without ever moving from his spot even if it's targeted right at him.

Using his action to actually bother to get out of the area is small potatoes, in comparison.

-O

A completely different problem. Not one we shouldn't look at, but not the problem here. If the person attempting to do this has evasion and evades the damage by moving out of the way and NOT with his reflex save and evasion then it is equally wrong. Not saying it doesn't make more sense, heck I would probably prefer it, but it is not what the rules say by RAW.