D&D 3E/3.5 Does 4e sound more D&Dish to you than 3e did?

[coyote6]

I think I'll miss saving throws; they're pretty solidly D&D to me.

 

[MerricB]

And yet at the same time, if instead of advancing the levels you change the strength scores, (orcs get +4 to strength right), you can have orcs with 18-22 strength which increases their chance to hit tremendously.

No longer vanilla orcs. (Their CR would now be 1 or even 2 each).

Cheers!

 

[Dinkeldog]

Nope, not really, but thanks for asking.

And yet, here you are. Over 20 other wonderful forums to enjoy where you would be able to fully participate on topics involving a game that you've already said that you enjoy, as opposed to the single forum where you're involving yourself in topics that are of no interest to you.

 

[MerricB]

Define 'D&D'.

It sounds less 'old school' to me--but I am thoroughly sick of the ambience of "nasty, brutish, high-lethality, low-wonder, purely shades of gray fading to black, ruthless, amoral, demon-infatuated dungeon-crawling" that seems to define 'old school' to a sizeable minority, including some very influential people and publishers.

It does, however, seem to be carrying some of the sense of wonder and heroic feel I got from first looking at things like the Mentzer Expert rulesbook, 2E, and the other things that started me on D&D. I realize that I am an Offense Against True D&D, so I await the coming of my vorpal sword-bearing executioner.

Sorry, he got waylaid in Dungeonland and his sword stolen by Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

Nice post - interesting perspective on it.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

No, not really based on what I've seen so far.

But we don't really have the full picture yet, either (or anything remotely close).

Indeed we don't. Thanks for the reply!

Cheers!

 

[Angel Tarragon]

While some of the ideas I am hearing are intriguing, I must admit that 4E sounds less DnDish than any other incarnation.

 

[MerricB]

Some things I don't like the sound of (the whole "a core book a year" thing is one, making me think we're not getting a complete game in the sense of previous versions) but in many other ways this edition sounds like they are actually returning to some of the tropes established by Gygax and Arneson, having come full circle on what makes a good game system for both players and DMs. It's still true that we won't know the final result until next May, but there's as much for me to be optimistic about as there is for me to be wary of.

Nice post, Henry.

As a note, I think the "new core books" every year was floated during the development of 3e - it was eventually nixed, but seem to see it returning now.

Personally, I think that the designers really ran into trouble with 3.5e, because as soon as they'd worked out the rules, they thought of new ones (swift & immediate actions) that should have been in core that weren't...

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

I have no particular loyalty to D&D in and of itself, but I do think that if you're going to have the IP, you should cleave as much to that IP as possible, not do your best to toss it out the window.

Nicely stated.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

If sometimes it feels to me that 4e is perhaps a bit less D&D, is in the structure of the adventures. Particularly, the "need for resting", while it is often an annoyance, that's always been part of the D&D equation for me, and a difference with other game ruleset. I've learned to live with it. It's a burden, but daily resource-management has been part of this game for me in all editions so far.

It's like one fundamental limitation of your favourite sport. I don't know, for example think Basketball and the rule that you have to bounce the ball continuously, if you just carry it with both hands like in football/rugby you get a penalty. It's a burden, and sometimes it might prevent a cool action (think basketball player hugging the ball like a quarterback, charging into enemy lines and make a slum dunk). But if they took it away, I'm not sure it'd still feel like watching basketball anymore.

Excellent post, Li Shenron! Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I'm really not sure what the change to resource management will mean to the feel of the game.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

I dunno. Is it going to make it easier for my dwarf fighter to meet new and interesting creatures, kill them, take their stuff, and then spend it on ale and whores? Will I be able to pass a giant barrel of cheese puffs around the table and throw them at the DM when he rips off of a movie we've all seen, so I can save my funny-looking polyhedral dice for in-game acts of violence?

If it does these things better than 3e, then yes, 4e will be more D&Dish than 3e.

Somehow, I'm not sure I ever want to be your DM if I'm going to be assaulted by food!

Cheers!