does a nice, shy, meek guy have a chance in hell?

[DaveMage]

However, be warned - finding a person to share your life with is not the be-all and end-all of the Universe. I'm rather firmly of the belief that if you want a stable, permanent relationship, you need to be reasonably happy with your life without a significant other. If you aren't, you put an undue burden on that other person to make your life liveable. And that's just not fair, and generally the person will tire of it, and yoru relationship will suffer.

Quoted for truth.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Hi guy!

1) As others have said, you should probably seek professional help. Nothing wrong in this. If you had a broken arm, you'd go to a doctor, right? So if you have a broken sense of self, a doctor is still in order.

2) Don't look for love right out of the gate. You're probably going to have to have a few relationships just to get an idea of what you need and want. Trust me, a lot of guys have settled for "anything" only to end up with a woman who used that need for her own ends (one dude I used to work with let his girlfriend in on his mortgage. He spent the next five years getting out of debt after she dumped him). So, concentrate on just dating. Just like D&D, you wouldn't send a 1st level character after a level 15 challenge, right? Start out small and casual.

3) Work out. I can not stress the benefits of an exercise program enough. You will look better. You will feel better. You will have a hobby outside of computers and D&D that you can talk to people about. Focus and you'll be surprised at the results. A year from now you'll be juggling anvils or running marathons! I have seen many, many body transformatations that are simply amazing. In my own case, I went from blobbo,to Charles Atlas, and back to blobbo. Gotta get that Charles Atlas thing going again.....

4) After you have found a therapist you like. After you've realized you won't solve these problems in a day by bumping into "just anyone". After you've cranked up your exercise program ... join a co-ed sports team. I reccomend softball or volleyball. Don't do it to meet girls. Do it to meet people. A lot of these people won't really be your type, but that's OK. You'll be doing something physical with other people and that always leads to conversations. A conversation with some shallow tie-wearing guy can always lead to a conversation with a nice young lady, or at least it will give you practice.

Good luck man!

 

[Rel]

This dosen't mean that you have to completely change your personality, but when you're trying to impress women, act as though it's impossible for you to fail. Don't hang on her every word or be an ass kisser. Don't be afraid to disagree with her on things. And above all else, don't come across as desperate.

Ditto. As I said in a recent thread on a similar topic:

"Don't treat her like a princess unless you want to be treated like a serf."

 

[The Shaman]

Aaron L, I believe you've answered your own question already.

Q: Do women want a nice, shy, meek guy?
A: You're twenty-nine and never had a relationship with a woman, so your experience should tell you that the answer is, "Probably not."

You can hold out doing what you're doing in the hopes of finding someone who will "accept you for who you are" (code words for "I'm too indifferent/scared to risk change"), or you can try something else. I strongly recommend the latter - some good suggestions have already been offered.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Ditto. As I said in a recent thread on a similar topic:

"Don't treat her like a princess unless you want to be treated like a serf."

Trueness.

However, one CAN be a nice guy and meet women. The trick is to balance respect and self confidence. People are attracted to confidence. People are attracted to those who respect themselves and others. But don't go so far as to become a doormat. Respect the feelings and beliefs of others, but don't compromise your own.

Works for me. Like a charm.

**DMCal, who has been called an anomaly by Teflon Billy for this.**

 

[Rel]

Trueness.

However, one CAN be a nice guy and meet women. The trick is to balance respect and self confidence. People are attracted to confidence. People are attracted to those who respect themselves and others. But don't go so far as to become a doormat. Respect the feelings and beliefs of others, but don't compromise your own.

Works for me. Like a charm.

**DMCal, who has been called an anomaly by Teflon Billy for this.**

I don't advocate treating women like crap (and I don't think TB truly does either). But you can't place their needs ahead of your own all the time without putting yourself in a subservient position in the relationship.

Plenty of time for that later when you're married.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Plenty of time for that later when you're married.

*snicker*

 

[fusangite]

ive lost all hope and dont have much to live for if this is how my life is going to be. all ive ever wanted since i was a teenager was someone to love me, and ive never had anything even remotely resembling it.

This is your problem right here. I'm four years older than you are and only slightly less of a romantic failure. The point is, though, that life is worth living, beautiful and meaningful even if you never find a girlfriend. Because I've been approaching my "ten years single" anniversary lately, I've been feeling more like you than I usually do. However, over all, in the past several years, despite my days of having a girlfriend receding behind me with no new partner in sight, my life has got steadily better each year. I am fitter, more financially secure and happier than I have been in a long time -- moreso, even, than I was for much of my relationship.

The first problem you need to solve has nothing to do with finding a date; you have to confront the ugly possibility that you may never find a girlfriend and build a life that is worth living in spite of that. Life can be beautiful, meaningful and enjoyable, full of friends and good times even if you die a virgin. Get back to work on your depression problems with new tools like anti-depressants, counselling, exercise, a better diet and, most importantly, expand and deepen your network of friendships. Some people will tell you that you should do this because doing this will make you more attractive; it hasn't worked out that way for me; but it was nevertheless worth doing because I love my life, even if I can only share it with my friends and relatives.

ive been told im too nice. i have no self confidence, but how do you have self confidence when you know that theres something so fundamentally repulsive about you to cause you to be 29 years old and never so much as kissed a woman?

Be prepared for a bunch of stupid responses to this statement. I used to ask for advice and help with confidence-building strategies. But every single exchange I've had about it is basically,
"Can you help me be more self-confident?"
"Yeah -- nobody will be attracted to you if you're not self-confident."
"I know. That's why I need to figure out a confidence-building strategy."
"Yeah. You have to learn to be confident."
"I know. How do I do that?"
"Stop being difficult. If you're not confident, nobody will date you."
Etc.
Don't even try asking people for help with this in this forum. Most people are self-confident because their self-image is not empirically-grounded. They assume they have a worth or value totally independent of what others think of them. Clearly this is a healthy, if inaccurate, way to think. You sound like someone who bases his opinions on evidence. So, naturally, the more times you are rejected, the less value you feel you have because there is an ever-increasing mass of empirical evidence telling you that you are unworthy as a romantic partner.

And although people go on about how women's priorities change over time, I don't really buy it. My landlady, at the age of 61, just dumped a guy who was stupid and narcissitic. Why? Not because he was as dumb as a rock and incapable of talking about anything other than himself but because he was not self-confident enough.

To quote a self help book aphorism/poem my mother used to read to herself, "Don't wait for someone to bring you flowers. Plant your own garden." Buy some more porn and start planning for a fulfilling and meaningful single life.

ive tried asking people what i need to change abuot myself, and i never get a straight answer. is it just that im nice, shy, meek, and polite, and these arent things that women want in a man? my very personailty is just so unmanly that the very idea of a romantic relationship with me is a joke?

Yep. You're perceptive and clever. Those attributes won't help you either.

i dont know what to do anymore. i used to be able to hide behind roleplaying and smother my pain in games, but i dont even have that anymore, everyone i gamed with having decided im not worth the effort to even speak to anymore. i post it here becuse i have no friends left, and no one i can talk too.

How did you lose your friends? This sounds to me like your real problem. I think you focused on the female companionship thing in your post because you know it has a track record of getting lots of attention on ENWorld whereas having no friends, a much more serious problem, doesn't.

i dont expect any answers, because i know there arent any. but the pain is just too much and i need to yell, or scream, or even just complain to someone. so i drink and hope to fall asleep and sometimes wish i wouldnt wake up in the morning.

Glad we could at least function as a sounding board. My immediate advice: call one of your old friends and invite them to go drinking with you.

 

[Rel]

Be prepared for a bunch of stupid responses to this statement. I used to ask for advice and help with confidence-building strategies. But every single exchange I've had about it is basically,
"Can you help me be more self-confident?"
"Yeah -- nobody will be attracted to you if you're not self-confident."
"I know. That's why I need to figure out a confidence-building strategy."
"Yeah. You have to learn to be confident."
"I know. How do I do that?"
"Stop being difficult. If you're not confident, nobody will date you."
Etc.

I agree that "be confident" is not very helpful advice. I'll give you something concrete and you can decide whether it is stupid or not:

A risk where you have nothing to lose is not a risk.

That's what approaching a woman is about. You have nothing and stand to gain everything. There is no deal so sweet in all the universe as that. Confidence is not the notion that you'll win every encounter with womankind. Confidence is knowing that you'll SURVIVE FAILURE and try again.

"But," you say, "this prospect terrifies me." Terrifies you more than what?! More than the self-loathing and fear of being alone your whole life and knowing that you've done nothing to deserve otherwise? I am familiar with self-loathing and there is NOTHING worse that I can imagine. Do you think that other guys aren't afraid when they put themselves out there and strike up a conversation with a woman? But they do it anyway because that's how you get past the fear and eventually how you find somebody to share this crazy life with.

If you see an attractive woman, and if she's not wearing a shirt that says, "Womyn Rule, Men Suk!" while holding an operational chain saw, then get your ass over there and talk to her. And then when she turns you down and sends you away, go home and feel the depression of being shot down instead of the far worse feeling that you never even tried. Then get up the next morning and go do it again. And again. Until you get a date. And when that relationship fails in its infancy go do it again.

Fail. Fail often and gloriously until you understand that failure means nothing.

You are NOT special and if you think that this cruel universe is just going to hand you the perfect relationship with no effort or hardship on your part then you're playing a game with long odds. If you're going to play those odds then buy a lotto ticket too. And when you win then have a t-shirt with your net worth on it printed for every day of the week. Because that's the only other way that you're going to land chicks if you won't make the effort.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Trueness.

However, one CAN be a nice guy and meet women. The trick is to balance respect and self confidence. People are attracted to confidence. People are attracted to those who respect themselves and others. But don't go so far as to become a doormat. Respect the feelings and beliefs of others, but don't compromise your own.

Works for me. Like a charm.

**DMCal, who has been called an anomaly by Teflon Billy for this.**

Old quote: "Never place a person on a pedestal, they end up looking down on you".