Does a publisher/author's interaction here influence your purchases?

[Vocenoctum]

Actually, free markets depend on honest economic actors, but apparently theft and deception do not concern certain people as much as whether or not they like what people say on an online forum.

Which people?
What people in this thread said "it's okay that Tensen did this, he's a nice guy and I'll buy from him, but eyebeams is just rude, so I hate him."

If anything, your experience with him seems so old that it's hard to say if his past behavior is a sign of his current behavior. It's a consequence of the manner in which you attack. Like I said, just because we only agree with you 90% doesn't mean we're saying you're wrong. Just because you're right, doesn't mean you can act how you want without repurcussions.

To put it simply, stop trying to deflect our reactions to your behavior onto what Tensen did to you. It's a seperate issue for some of us. If you want to argue by your own rules in a public forum, it's a bit silly to expect everyone to use them.

 

[BryonD]

Actually, free markets depend on honest economic actors, but apparently theft and deception do not concern certain people as much as whether or not they like what people say on an online forum.

Yep, you've got it figured out. I'm certain you will now leverage this masterful understanding of what gamers want into being a major player in the publishing industry of the near future.

Or, you are deluding yourself because it makes you feel better.

Time will tell.


I got to hand it to you, that straw man's head cleared 30 feet.

 

[GMSkarka]

It's a seperate issue for some of us.

That's sort of his point, though.

His point is that a guy with a reputation for being nice had screwed him over, but that a guy with a reputation for not being nice (me, specifically) had handled business with him in an up-front and honest manner.

His point was that among the crowd that complains about publisher/author behavior, the guy who handles his business well gets static, but the one who is less than above-board does not....simply because of their posting style.

It speaks to the priorities of that particular crowd....fairly strongly, in fact.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Hopefully that makes more sense.

Perfectly. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Roudi]

That's sort of his point, though.

His point is that a guy with a reputation for being nice had screwed him over, but that a guy with a reputation for not being nice (me, specifically) had handled business with him in an up-front and honest manner.

His point was that among the crowd that complains about publisher/author behavior, the guy who handles his business well gets static, but the one who is less than above-board does not....simply because of their posting style.

Its a fault of perspective. Some of us only see the face presented to us on the messageboard. We haven't had the opportunity to work with you or deal with you under different circumstances. If we had, some of us might have a lot better opinions of you.

In fact, you work with some really good people, and they have good things to say about you in return. That cannot be ignored.

 

[GMSkarka]

Its a fault of perspective. Some of us only see the face presented to us on the messageboard. We haven't had the opportunity to work with you or deal with you under different circumstances. If we had, some of us might have a lot better opinions of you.

That's pretty much exactly what eyebeams is saying. That the fault of perspective should be taken into account, because in its most extreme form, it can lead to examples like the one he provided.

In fact, you work with some really good people, and they have good things to say about you in return. That cannot be ignored.

Thanks for saying so.

 

[mythusmage]

Right there with you. My Lion's Den PDF Planar Factions? Written for publication as a print book several years ago. The company, unfortunately, simply vanished. They didn't contact me, they didn't tell me what was going on, they simply stopped responding to e-mails and took down their web site.

I'm happy enough to have put the product out via my own studio, but the truth is, I doubt--even now--that I've made one-tenth from its sales as PDF as I was contracted for in the first place.

And I was so looking forward to that.

:sigh: They were doing so good, then their magazines ceased publication.

 

[Vocenoctum]

That's sort of his point, though.

His point is that a guy with a reputation for being nice had screwed him over, but that a guy with a reputation for not being nice (me, specifically) had handled business with him in an up-front and honest manner.

His point was that among the crowd that complains about publisher/author behavior, the guy who handles his business well gets static, but the one who is less than above-board does not....simply because of their posting style.

It speaks to the priorities of that particular crowd....fairly strongly, in fact.

I'll repeat the point, I guess. You're saying we're more likely to buy from Tensen than from you, simply because your posting style is more abrasive than his, though eyebeams says Tensen has screwed him and you've been fair. True?

My point is, simply, that comparison doesn't matter. It's not a "buy from Tensen or buy from Skarka" deal. We can decline to buy from either of you. Maybe I've missed it, but I didn't notice anyone saying they'd buy Tensen's stuff because he was nice. I've simply been remarking on how eyebeams is handling the situation.

You guys keep wanting to make comparisons to make it seem like those of us who let your posting style count are "wrong" about our decision. "Hey, I suck less than that guy, so i must not suck!" doesn't really cut it in a marketplace like this IMO.

If someone admits they were wrong and changes their behavior, should they still be demonized? Who knows, that's a seperate issue.

 

[Darrin Drader]

This is the kind of attitude that devalues our work. It is, in effect, saying that if somebody screws you, you promise not to put up a fuss.

That's actually not true at all. First, I agree that getting screwed by a publisher sucks, but your specifics aside, you need to look at it from other perspectives.

First, say you have a group of gamers who are fans of the publisher. The publisher gets into financial trouble and you don't get paid. You go on the messageboards and talk smack about the publisher not paying you. Now those gamers may (1) turn against you because they don't buy your story, or (2) they buy your story and turn against the publisher. If they turn against you, then that means you risk lower sales because that group no longer wants to buy your stuff. If they turn against the publisher, that means potentially less money for you because the publisher isn't making sales they otherwise might be making.

Now, let's look at other publishers. Most RPG publishers are pretty small as far as businesses go. Most of them are run by people in their spare time and are really more like a hobby that occasionally involves money. A publisher gets into trouble and can't pay you. Now, if you go public with it, you have alerted other freelancers about the problem, but you have also told other publishers that you can't keep your mouth shut. Like I said, most publishers in this business are small and are likely to run into cashflow problems sooner or later. Other prospective publishers that might be interested in you may see this and decide that they don't want to take that risk. Now not only did you not get paid for the work you did earlier, but you're also not getting paid for work you could be doing in the future.

If you feel like airing your grievances with the publisher in a public forum, really, that's your business, not mine. I'm only offering a suggestion. I personally will not go crying bloody murder the next time I get stiffed, I just will probably be very cautious about working for said publisher again.

 

[BryonD]

That's sort of his point, though.

His point is that a guy with a reputation for being nice had screwed him over, but that a guy with a reputation for not being nice (me, specifically) had handled business with him in an up-front and honest manner.

His point was that among the crowd that complains about publisher/author behavior, the guy who handles his business well gets static, but the one who is less than above-board does not....simply because of their posting style.

It speaks to the priorities of that particular crowd....fairly strongly, in fact.

No.

It speaks to people who don't like the feedback they are getting trying to muddy the water.


First, the poll is saying that being nice gets better response than being rude. period.

Being dishonest would be a wholey different matter that isn't the topic of this thread. Trying to use one specific example in which all the facts are not public as an example to undermine the entire topic at hand is a wild example of a red herring.

I have yet to see a single person say that screwing anyone is ok, or that it would not affect their position. This is a strawman that has been falsely established as a diversion. One person is insisting to the "fact" that they were screwed. Others are suggesting that perhaps an open mind should be kept in regard to what all the facts of that particular case are. Saying that all the facts are not known does not equate in any way to saying that it would be ok if somebody did what someone else claimed. To try to misrepresent one as the other is nothign less than dishonest.

But, since we are on this path, as a member of the open gaming community, would you feel it was ok to think poorly of a publisher, be they polite or rude, if that open gaming publisher was turning around and re-distributing other people's IP on their website?