Does anybody else miss 1st L Characters

[Faraer]

This thread makes me think of changing meanings of women's clothing sizes.

 

[Vascant]

We play 3.5 and it is very common (Okay, everyone does it) to roll up a few first level characters when we start a new campaign, we don't play one shots. We expect death, adventuring is a dangerous profession and the people who play in my group enjoy the challenge of staying alive.

The group still laughs about the first encounter a few campaigns ago, it was an orc who did 3 crits and ended up killing 3 of the party members before having to run away from his own injuries. To this day we start joke about the rumors of a legendary orc who slays entire adventuring companies.

 

[The Human Target]

Nope.

I played a session of 1st level Pathfinder recently.

One lucky big hit took my dwarf rogue down to 1 hit point. Not really fun for me when I had to hide behind a rock to avoid death in round 3.

I also recently ran a 1st level game of 4E Gamma World. We rolled for stats (as the game suggests) and went from there. Even though it might seem like some characters ended up with a lot of HP (compared to say a 3e wizard) many of them had reeeaaaally horrible hit points. And the monster damage is very high. So we ended up with three TPKs in 2 sessions. Not fun.

I don't think 1st level characters have to be battle gods.

But I'm a fragile human perilously close to death at all times in real life.

I'd like to be a bit more awesome in my fantasy game.

 

[Aramax]

The problem is that if I have my way and get a grittier L1,the EASY fix for other groups would be to start at higher levels of play.If I dont get my way and its more like 4th then I have no easy option to run the way I want to.
If you want to start at L1 AND be real tuff,your looking to exclude a lot of people who want the true L1 experiance and 5 is looking to include not exclude-I feel very safe in predicting -Im going to get my way.

 

[The Human Target]

The problem is that if I have my way and get a grittier L1,the EASY fix for other groups would be to start at higher levels of play.If I dont get my way and its more like 4th then I have no easy option to run the way I want to.
If you want to start at L1 AND be real tuff,your looking to exclude a lot of people who want the true L1 experiance and 5 is looking to include not exclude-I feel very safe in predicting -Im going to get my way.

Look at it the other way though.

Just because I don't want to play a super gritty game does that mean I should essentially lose levels of gameplay because other people want to?

I think the better way to make everyone happy would just be to have alternative rules for the games lethality, regardless of which version is the core assumption.

 

[Aramax]

Look at it the other way though.

Just because I don't want to play a super gritty game does that mean I should essentially lose levels of gameplay because other people want to?

I think the better way to make everyone happy would just be to have alternative rules for the games lethality, regardless of which version is the core assumption.

A simple fix on lethality does not fix the problem.
I want lower stats
less damage out put
lower hp
(I remember the one 4th PC that started at FORTY HP!)
but would deff be interested in at wills for everybody
The worst you have to deal w/ is starting at 2nd or 3rd
just cause you call it first ,doenst make it so

 

[Mark CMG]

I started with Basic D&D, where a first level fighter was a Veteran, not a recruit, and a 1st level magic-user was a Medium, not an apprentice. What I've always wanted was the abilities that reflect those kinds of titles. That doesn't mean my 1st level characters have to be super-badass right off the bat. But a little more durability, a little more combat ability would be nice.

That's been my impression of the game since the start. We've played that way since the beginning, even though there were also bandits and kobolds who were a threat to a town, for instance, adventurers were still the ones who were called on to stop such incursions.

 

[Mark CMG]

The ship has already left on the changing the D&D paradigm thing. 4th did it.

It seems that the market has spoken on that and WotC is looking to walk things back from that paradigm shift. Besides, as long as the rules support 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level play for those who want the time-honored style of gaming, those who are in your camp can always begin their games at 4th level. If the game rules don't include something similar to what you suggest not wanting included, the audience for the game will be drawn from only those who are willing to switch from 4E and WotC will have even fewer customers than now, which seems to be what they plan to correct.

 

[The Human Target]

A simple fix on lethality does not fix the problem.
I want lower stats
less damage out put
lower hp
(I remember the one 4th PC that started at FORTY HP!)
but would deff be interested in at wills for everybody
The worst you have to deal w/ is starting at 2nd or 3rd
just cause you call it first ,doenst make it so

I just don't see the difference between wanting weaker 1st level characters and higher lethality really.

You don't want 40 HP at first level? Half it!

You don't want someone to deal 20 points of damage at first level? Half it! Or quarter it or whatever.

I guess I just don't get what you're going for.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Because a reminder might be helpful, I offer the following link that might be a bit nostalgic for those of us who have been around the game for a while:

Always the First to Die - YouTube

For those not familiar and unwilling to click on the lkink, here are the lyrics:

Always the First to Die

Five guys and a bag of dice,
It’s Friday night’s game.
Got a cleric and a fighter, thief
But we ain’t got a mage.

My friends, they all looked at me
And said the job was mine.
"You might suck at level one,
But you’ll rip at level nine."

We’re playing the Keep, so we enter the town
To stock up for the night.
I learn the two standard spells:
Magic Missile and Light.

Suddenly, from out of the caves,
The kobolds, they attack.
I screamed and s*** my pants
And took a dagger in the back.
That's why...

CHORUS:
I’m always the first to die, Always the first to die.
I’m always the first to die, Always the first to die.

Some guys get chain or plate, or a big-ass sword that does one dice 8.
I get the lantern and a ten foot pole and some rope,
With this thing that does one dice 4, one dice 4.
I only do one d4. That's why...

CHORUS

Mage two was an elf named Shrew
Who found a poison trap.
Mage three was an NPC
So I had to give him back.

Four and five went really quick,
And six was just the same.
Screw you guys, I’m going home
And f*** this game. Because...

CHORUS

I submit that though this may bring a nostalgic tear to your eye, most of us who have been this guy really don't want to go back.