does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?

[Klaus]

Except if the caster moves 30' upwind... or has a fly spell and flies upwards..

Let's face it.. by the time that an enemy caster has improved invisibility, the party caster should have See Invisibility (since that's only a 2nd level spell), which negates the advantage of the invisible caster even more so than Scent supposedly does.

See Invisibility won't help against a simple Hide check, and scent does.

 

[Legildur]

Interestingly, in my games there is nearly always a half-orc barbarian. Typically we use a fairly generous rolling method that generates PB scores of 36+. Theoretically, it doesn't make senses to choose half-orc over dwarf for a barbarian with scores in this range, but various players invariably do. The bonus to Strength and the higher movement rate are seen as a sufficient advantage for a character that spends the bulk of its time in melee combat - that, and the nasty appearance factor.

I have a half-orc bbr/ftr/clr (of Kord) in one game. Common sense would have seen me take human (for the feat) or dwarf, but with a focus on using a spiked chain (yes, dumped a 15 into Int), then bonus to Str was a real boon for attack bonus, damage, opposed trip and disarm checks.

 

[Seeten]

Confused, so you have a 20 str and a 13 int? Whats the point buy?

 

[Legildur]

Confused, so you have a 20 str and a 13 int? Whats the point buy?

Used the E-tools program with the 'high powered' campaign rolling option. We are allowed to roll 6 sets of abilities and choose the best set. Usually get at least one 18 score in the 6 sets, but that isn't always the best set (depending on build).

And trust me, with what our DMs tend to throw at us, every little bit helps. We still have a reasonable fatality rate (this is my second character in the World's Largest Dungeon after my human archer failed a 'save or die' saving throw).

 

[Seeten]

give me 6 18's and all races look good. Isn't meaningful, tho

 

[Votan]

I think the issue is what you comapre the Half-Orc to. If you compare it to the best of the races (dwarf, for sure, and probably human) then it looks weak. Compared to an average race it looks about right (Elf with the very situational weapon proficiencies that can be meaningless of the elf is a melee character and the weak constitution score). Compared to an actually weak race (Half-Elf; just doesn't dominate everywhere and has abilities way weaker than either the human parent or the elf parent) then the Half-Orc looks okay as it at least is able to focus.

So from a pwoer perspective it is about average as far as I can tell, maybe a bit less compared to popular choices

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Scent is a strong ability, easily worth 2 feats IMNSHO.

Scent gives amazing bonuses and synergies with Track + Survival skill.

There is really no hiding from the Ranger who can Spot + Listen + Scent + Track + get assistance from his Animal Companion.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think the issue is what you comapre the Half-Orc to. If you compare it to the best of the races (dwarf, for sure, and probably human) then it looks weak. Compared to an average race it looks about right (Elf with the very situational weapon proficiencies that can be meaningless of the elf is a melee character and the weak constitution score). Compared to an actually weak race (Half-Elf; just doesn't dominate everywhere and has abilities way weaker than either the human parent or the elf parent) then the Half-Orc looks okay as it at least is able to focus.

So from a pwoer perspective it is about average as far as I can tell, maybe a bit less compared to popular choices

That is basically how I see it as well.

The designers rate movement bonuses/penalties as very valuable. If you consider the most bonus-laden race and downplay its biggest penalty, then compare the Half-Orc against that race, well, you will inevitably find the Half-Orc disappointing.

Like the majority of races of the PHB, the Half-Orc works very well in its class/role niche and poorly outside of that niche. The comfort zone happens to be a bit narrow for the Half-Orc, but I do not see the race as really much worse off than the Halfling or Elf or Half-Elf in that respect.

Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes have a lot going for them in the eyes of powergamers. Everyone cannot be above average.

 

[Legildur]

give me 6 18's and all races look good. Isn't meaningful, tho

What's your point here?

 

[Darklone]

How about:

Empty headed: Half orcs have a +2 bonus against mind affecting spells and effects.

Abused: Can Take Die Hard feat without meeting prerequisite.

Kinslayer: +1 to hit orcs in melee

-These are human raised traits-

Labourer +50% carring capacity

Thrown down the well and came right back: +2 to swim and climb checks.

-These are orc raised traits-

Orcish leader: +2 to Leadership score if cohort and at least 50% of followers have orc blood.

Beast rider +2 to ride checks and handle animal on dire wolves [or other campaign specific orcish mount].

Nobody's bitch: +4 to on checks to escape grapple and break pins.

The pretty face: +3 on diplomacy checks with orcs, gnolls, gobliniods, minotaurs and non-good giants.

Human raised trait:
Turn tail and run: + 5ft movement speed per round.