does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?

[Grog]

Basic defense posture doesn't include the ability to leave the five-foot square you're occupying at will, which is what one would need to do to avoid a person walking into their square with their arms wide open.

Think about it this way. Look around the room you're in. Assuming it's not unusually large, there is no way an invisible creature could avoid you for very long if you were to put your arms out to your sides and walk quickly around the room, so long as you didn't move in any kind of predictable pattern.

Put me in an average-sized living room and I could easily find an invisible creature, even if it was specifically trying to avoid me. It wouldn't even take me very long to do it. And so could you. I guarantee it. Now, most dungeon rooms are somewhat bigger than that - but with a party, you also have more people searching.

 

[smootrk]

If I can evade a sword blow aimed directly at my head within my 5 foot cube, then I should have the same benefit from someone waving their arms about without even seeing me.... I guess just a difference of opinion here.

 

[Klaus]

There are specific rules for what this "walking about with arms open" ammounts to in the (iirc) DMG. The character chooses two squares adjacent to him and grope about as (again, iirc) a standard action. He rolls a touch attack and, if there's an invisible character there, he pinpoints the location (at least until the creature's next action). The 50% miss chance still applies, even if you pinpoint the invisible character.

 

[Grog]

You can't automatically evade a sword blow, though. A completely average human swinging at another completely average human is going to hit better than 50% of the time (10 or better on 1d20). And that's swinging a weapon with the intent to do damage, not just trying to find someone.

Find an empty room sometime, close your eyes, and try to find a friend using the method I described above. I bet it doesn't take you very long at all.

 

[smootrk]

Basic defense posture doesn't include the ability to leave the five-foot square you're occupying at will, which is what one would need to do to avoid a person walking into their square with their arms wide open..

You are still interpreting the situation in a turn-based reality, which is not what the round of combat is really supposed to signify. All movement, all actions, all inactions for the entire set of participants all really occurs during the same 6 second period. There is no systematic shuffling around of folks in an orderly fashion. The turns of a round are there just to establish a mechanic to approximate the actions of combat, and to resolve the situation in a reasonably orderly fashion.

 

[Grog]

There are specific rules for what this "walking about with arms open" ammounts to in the (iirc) DMG. The character chooses two squares adjacent to him and grope about as (again, iirc) a standard action. He rolls a touch attack and, if there's an invisible character there, he pinpoints the location (at least until the creature's next action). The 50% miss chance still applies, even if you pinpoint the invisible character.

"Groping about" is reaching into adjacent squares without moving. Simply walking around and trying to bump into an invisible creature would be much faster and more effective.

 

[KarinsDad]

"Groping about" is reaching into adjacent squares without moving. Simply walking around and trying to bump into an invisible creature would be much faster and more effective.

This should not be allowed in the game.

Step 2
Opponent Avoids? The defender has the option to simply avoid you. If he avoids you, he doesn’t suffer any ill effect and you may keep moving (You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by.) The overrun attempt doesn’t count against your actions this round (except for any movement required to enter the opponent’s square).

If a visible opponent can just avoid an attack of an overrun, an invisible opponent should easily be able to avoid any of the proposed "simply walking around" or "arms outstretched" attempts.

There's a reason that the Spot DCs for invisible creature rules are in the game. These difficult DCs should not be simply avoided by walking around.

The groping rules are also there for a reason:

A creature can grope about to find an invisible creature. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent 5-foot squares using a standard action. If an invisible target is in the designated area, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has successfully pinpointed the invisible creature’s current location. (If the invisible creature moves, its location, obviously, is once again unknown.)

I would only allow finding an invisible with either the approprite DC 30 or 40 spot, or the groping rules.

People "simply walking around" will just be avoided by the invisible creatures.

 

[Arkhandus]

How about: ***real funny suggestions ensue***

That was awesome. Thanks for the laughs. A bright point in my boring day.

 

[BASHMAN]

they often speak orc and are considered orc blood.

yeah, so dwarves and rangers can do extra damage to them, and certain magical weapons were made to slay them. How is orc-blood an advantage again?

 

[green slime]

"Groping about" is reaching into adjacent squares without moving. Simply walking around and trying to bump into an invisible creature would be much faster and more effective.

I disagree.

You assume the invisible person is just standing around smoking a joint waiting to be tagged.

in a 30' square room, blindfolded, you'd have a hard time trying to tag someone who was actively avoiding you.