does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?

[Jhulae]

I think so. Check out scent



So, an ability that lets you pinpoint invisible foes that you are next to? Sounds amazingly strong to me. Especially including being aware of hidden foes within 15-60ft.

Scent may allow you to know that there's an invisible opponent, even the exact square that opponent is in if she's next to the creature with scent, but that does not dismiss the 50% miss chance for attacking an invisible opponent.

So, it's not quite as powerful as it seems.

 

[Darklone]

Great stuff, Frank. Exactly what I wanted

 

[KarinsDad]

So, it's not quite as powerful as it seems.

Actually in some scenarios, it can be quite powerful.

One of the best mid-level tactics is to cast Greater Invisibility and then each round, fire off an offensive spell and move upwards of 30 feet.

Abilities like Scent mostly negate this type of tactic since such a caster can then more easily be tagged by both area effect spells and by melee attacks.

Knowing the exact square is a lot better than knowing that an Invisible creature is in one of 121 squares (for a 30 move creature, more for a faster caster or a flying caster).

What's the miss chance on a 1 in 121 chance of targeting the proper square times the 50% normal miss chance?

 

[Aaron L]

You can't automatically evade a sword blow, though. A completely average human swinging at another completely average human is going to hit better than 50% of the time (10 or better on 1d20). And that's swinging a weapon with the intent to do damage, not just trying to find someone.

Find an empty room sometime, close your eyes, and try to find a friend using the method I described above. I bet it doesn't take you very long at all.

I'll take that bet, as long as you're trying to do the finding and I can move as much as you can. (duck, weave, kneel, etc.)



Say, 1000 dollars I can avoid you for at least a minute? (10 rounds)



Or were you assuming that creatures just don't move when it isn't their turn to attack?

 

[KarinsDad]

Or were you assuming that creatures just don't move when it isn't their turn to attack?

He sure as heck was not assuming a noisy battle around him where he would never ever hear a single unseen opponent.

 

[Janx]

Do you know what the word Gypped means?

Way to bash the Roma people....

no one's bashing gypsies, and in fact, if nobody knew what it was derived from, they can't be propagating a stereotype can they...

back to the topic at hand, half-orcs get no lovin.

 

[Piratecat]

Janx, did you somehow the moderator warnings not to discuss the thread title's semantics and etymology? Please focus on the half-orc, and not the word "gyp."

 

[Jhulae]

Actually in some scenarios, it can be quite powerful.

One of the best mid-level tactics is to cast Greater Invisibility and then each round, fire off an offensive spell and move upwards of 30 feet.

Abilities like Scent mostly negate this type of tactic since such a caster can then more easily be tagged by both area effect spells and by melee attacks.

Knowing the exact square is a lot better than knowing that an Invisible creature is in one of 121 squares (for a 30 move creature, more for a faster caster or a flying caster).

What's the miss chance on a 1 in 121 chance of targeting the proper square times the 50% normal miss chance?

Except if the caster moves 30' upwind... or has a fly spell and flies upwards..

Let's face it.. by the time that an enemy caster has improved invisibility, the party caster should have See Invisibility (since that's only a 2nd level spell), which negates the advantage of the invisible caster even more so than Scent supposedly does.

 

[KarinsDad]

Except if the caster moves 30' upwind... or has a fly spell and flies upwards..

Moving 30' upwind is still within the upwind 60' range of Scent.

And regardless, the creature with Scent still can determine the direction in which the caster moved with a Move action.

The Track DC for following a creature with Scent is 10.

Let's face it.. by the time that an enemy caster has improved invisibility, the party caster should have See Invisibility (since that's only a 2nd level spell), which negates the advantage of the invisible caster even more so than Scent supposedly does.

Let's face it. Most characters (PCs and NPC creatures and monsters) do not have See Invisibility. Even characters who do have it might not have it prepared or might not have time to cast it.

Scent is not overwhelming. But, it can effectively negate or minimize the power of a 4th level spell: Greater Invisibility. How many core racial abilities can nearly negate a 4th level spell in some circumstances?

And, Scent can also help against some other illusions as well (i.e. ones without a olfactory component like Silent Image or Minor Image).

 

[Darklone]

Well, I wouldn't consider the possibility to get Scent as a feat as too strong. Half-orcs don't get many feats, taking Scent means waiting for level 6 for Cleave

Ok, Fighter levels help.