D&D 5E Does anyone have any experience with Monks?
- Thread starter EroGaki
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Inchoroi
Adventurer
Yeah, I can only echo what's been said so far. In my experience, you're an awesome skirmisher melee character. You are not a tank; you can be hard to hit, especially if you get good stats, but you won't be able to take damage.
If you wanted to play a tank, go varient human paladin with Polearm master. It is hilarious.
If you wanted to play a tank, go varient human paladin with Polearm master. It is hilarious.
ppaladin123
Adventurer
The monk benefits a lot from 2 levels of rogue for cunning action. You can use disengage for free and save you ki for flurry and for stunning fist. Stunning fist is pretty darn amazing (basically the only stunning effect not provided by a spell).
An "open hand" monk can play like a secondary damage dealer/battlefield control character between the stuns, trips, and pushes. And prone or stunned enemies are easier to hit by your spell casters and martial comrades alike so you contribute a great deal to overall damage. Much, much later they get quivering palm which is the only real save-or-die ability left in the game...if you make it that far they are brutal.
In terms of a damage "spike," though, the way of the elements monk gets water whip as a bonus action and hold person (all attacks that hit paralyzed monsters are automatic critical hits) but this will eat through your ki very quickly.
An "open hand" monk can play like a secondary damage dealer/battlefield control character between the stuns, trips, and pushes. And prone or stunned enemies are easier to hit by your spell casters and martial comrades alike so you contribute a great deal to overall damage. Much, much later they get quivering palm which is the only real save-or-die ability left in the game...if you make it that far they are brutal.
In terms of a damage "spike," though, the way of the elements monk gets water whip as a bonus action and hold person (all attacks that hit paralyzed monsters are automatic critical hits) but this will eat through your ki very quickly.
Sword of Spirit
Legend
My players are 4th level in LMoP. Tiefling Eldritch Knight, Human Life Cleric, Human Wild Mage, Dragonborn Arcane Trickster, Drow Transmuter, and Human Way of the Open Hand Monk.
I allowed the players to roll stats, and then choose whether to keep the roll or use point buy. Most player rolled quite well and kept it. The monk player rolled the lowest. One of my players suggested allowing him to use the array of the other player who rolled the worst but didn't go with point buy. That array was nothing special, but by taking the standard (non-variant) human and going with that array he came out ahead of point buy. The other character (except the one he borrowed the array from--who went with variant human) all have better stats. At 4th level his stats are Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 14. He took Tough as his 4th level feat.
The monk is awesome. I've house ruled the stats of a quarterstaff to only do 1d6 (amongst other things). He is wielding a nerfed (for a monk) quarterstaff for 1d6+4 damage, and an unarmed 1d4+4 damage with Martial Arts. When he uses ki (which he does regularly) he gets that extra 1d4+4 attack, and can force his opponent to make a save or be pushed or tripped--and he can do that twice in the turn. And if he happened to succeed on tripping them, then additional attacks are made with advantage.
The only other character who can compete with him on damage output is the two-weapon fighting rogue--since you almost have to try to not qualify for sneak attack in 5e.
The Str 18 fighter gets one attack with a +1 longsword unless he action surges, and the Str 19 (gauntlets of ogre power) cleric just upgraded his single attack to be with a +1 mace. The sorcerer and wizard have firebolt as their standby attacks.
They aren't even close to the regular damage output of the monk. He also has the third best hp and third best AC in a six-party group. He often seems to be the party's MVP in DPR, and has never come off as weak in any particular area. He does take more damage than the heavily armored fighter and cleric, but he's mobile enough that he rarely actually goes down.
So maybe if the entire rest of the group were somehow damage optimized and the monk wasn't they would suck. But from my experiences with my players, the way of the open hand monk rocks.
I allowed the players to roll stats, and then choose whether to keep the roll or use point buy. Most player rolled quite well and kept it. The monk player rolled the lowest. One of my players suggested allowing him to use the array of the other player who rolled the worst but didn't go with point buy. That array was nothing special, but by taking the standard (non-variant) human and going with that array he came out ahead of point buy. The other character (except the one he borrowed the array from--who went with variant human) all have better stats. At 4th level his stats are Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 14. He took Tough as his 4th level feat.
The monk is awesome. I've house ruled the stats of a quarterstaff to only do 1d6 (amongst other things). He is wielding a nerfed (for a monk) quarterstaff for 1d6+4 damage, and an unarmed 1d4+4 damage with Martial Arts. When he uses ki (which he does regularly) he gets that extra 1d4+4 attack, and can force his opponent to make a save or be pushed or tripped--and he can do that twice in the turn. And if he happened to succeed on tripping them, then additional attacks are made with advantage.
The only other character who can compete with him on damage output is the two-weapon fighting rogue--since you almost have to try to not qualify for sneak attack in 5e.
The Str 18 fighter gets one attack with a +1 longsword unless he action surges, and the Str 19 (gauntlets of ogre power) cleric just upgraded his single attack to be with a +1 mace. The sorcerer and wizard have firebolt as their standby attacks.
They aren't even close to the regular damage output of the monk. He also has the third best hp and third best AC in a six-party group. He often seems to be the party's MVP in DPR, and has never come off as weak in any particular area. He does take more damage than the heavily armored fighter and cleric, but he's mobile enough that he rarely actually goes down.
So maybe if the entire rest of the group were somehow damage optimized and the monk wasn't they would suck. But from my experiences with my players, the way of the open hand monk rocks.
I should clarify. I'm not trying to build a monk tank; it would be fairly difficult unless I somehow rolled well on my stats. Rather, I'm curious as to how tough a monk is when he's the only dedicated melee character in a group; if I play a monk with the current party composition, I'd be darting in and out of range constantly.
While Mearls may have thought they were going to have the Bracers of Defense become an AC = 13 + Dex bonus item, his comment on Sage Advice was well before the DMG was wrapped up. Instead, the Bracers of Defense became a +2 while not wearing armor or using a shield. If it was going to set a base AC, it would have been written up in the DMG similarly to unarmored defense or mage armor. It is perfect for a monk, wizard, sorcerer, or barbarian who doesn't use armor or a shield.
I DM a game where the characters are 9th level. There is a human shadow monk and a halfing rogue 8 / monk 1. The monk is a crazy awesome damage dealer. Between flurry of blows and attack dice scaling, he does respectable damage. The halfling keeps up as well by using a short sword to overcome the d4s of the monk level 1 (for the two main attacks).
The monk has an AC of 19 from Bracers of Defense. When the monk is hit, it is usually by something that can cause his hp to evaporate quickly. I cannot remember if he has a con bonus, but his max hp is 48 at minimum. Evasion, reduction of falling damage, catching missile weapons, and other things also reduce damage by a lot.
So a monk does not necessarily want to go in a straight up knock down drag out fight, but even then the monk's extra tricks could pull out a win fairly easily.
If I could offer up some advice, play whatever you want to play, and don't worry too much about what the party needs. It may mean that the party is super powerful one way and vulnerable in another, but the party will learn how to counter their vulnerabilities. I have played in a group that was only casters and no cleric, and they fared much better than I thought they would. As long as the monk is not playing like a d12 hit die barbarian with 23 AC, things should work out okay.
I wouldn't say glass cannon either.
Spending ki for a bonus action to use dodge in addition to attacks is nice, as long as the ki is available. It's not really tanking but it's definitely good for short term. They are competitive in damage with some falling behind -5/+10 use on a couple of feats but those don't hzve high AC either having given up shields. They fit more into the skirmisher style with the speed and ability score focuses that have good skill / ability check synergy. Additional class features capitalize on that skirmisher concept, like stunning, for a class that can move far fast to pick out prime targets for such effects.
AC is moderate and going a bit MAD does get to 20 but slacking on one or two points still leaves a similar AC to most classes that aren't using shields. Evasion, deflect missiles, stillness of mind, purity of body, diamond soul, and especially empty body reinforce that lack of glass cannon because there are more defenses to consider than just AC, although the moderate AC plus dodge or invisibility is still pretty decent. Empty body is generally disadvantage on attacks against you and resistance to all damage but force so it's pretty good. A person could go elemental monk for eternal mountain defense earlier and doesn't have material component costs when monks gain CON save proficiency (all save proficiencies) and can spend ki to reroll it if failed.
I wasn't really a fan of elemental monks. I didn't think the elemental spell selection had enough options and spent ki pretty quickly using them. Shadow monk has nice stealth abilities and opportunist can be an easy bonus attack but my personal preference was with rogues. I really enjoyed open hand monks.
Spending ki for an extra attack is pretty good very early, but spending ki for an extra attack with a free knock down, push, or reaction denial ability is better. Reactions prevent opportunity attacks as part of the skirmisher concept to avoid being attacks or needed to disengage. Knockdown improves accuracy with advantage on following attacks until the target stands up for increased damage potential. Push has the same effect as reaction denial unless there's an environmental factor, usually, but push and knockdown allow for saves while reaction denial does not. Wholeness of body equals a daily bonus healing ability that isn't bad but useful in a pinch. Tranquility has a ton of flavor. Quivering palm is great because it's a cheap save or die effect in an edition where save or die effects have become almost completely non-existent and it can be done several times per short rest.
In my experience, open hand works if you want to play a monk and you are looking for a melee character. He can escape easily enough, if needed, and is strong defensively in ways the fighter or barbarian are not. Tough and mobile might be good feats for you with a heavy focus on WIS and DEX in your ASI's. When I was testing monks, I used human variant, point buy, and ignored STR, INT, and CHA. Between step of the wind and unarmored movement and the mobile feat I could melee kite, and using open hand technique to knock targets down meant they didn't have enough movement to get to party members staying far enough from combat; I didn't need to push or deny reaction to prevent opportunity attack because of the mobile feat.
They can be a bit behind damage builds and/or a bit behind AC builds but they do enough different things that they can do well enough for short term. You might watch your tactics to either keep combats short or use a fair bit of crowd control. Longer combats and lack of short rests can be big issues because without ki they can lose a lot. CC reduces the need to spend ki.
As with many things; that is subjective personal experience.
Spending ki for a bonus action to use dodge in addition to attacks is nice, as long as the ki is available. It's not really tanking but it's definitely good for short term. They are competitive in damage with some falling behind -5/+10 use on a couple of feats but those don't hzve high AC either having given up shields. They fit more into the skirmisher style with the speed and ability score focuses that have good skill / ability check synergy. Additional class features capitalize on that skirmisher concept, like stunning, for a class that can move far fast to pick out prime targets for such effects.
AC is moderate and going a bit MAD does get to 20 but slacking on one or two points still leaves a similar AC to most classes that aren't using shields. Evasion, deflect missiles, stillness of mind, purity of body, diamond soul, and especially empty body reinforce that lack of glass cannon because there are more defenses to consider than just AC, although the moderate AC plus dodge or invisibility is still pretty decent. Empty body is generally disadvantage on attacks against you and resistance to all damage but force so it's pretty good. A person could go elemental monk for eternal mountain defense earlier and doesn't have material component costs when monks gain CON save proficiency (all save proficiencies) and can spend ki to reroll it if failed.
I wasn't really a fan of elemental monks. I didn't think the elemental spell selection had enough options and spent ki pretty quickly using them. Shadow monk has nice stealth abilities and opportunist can be an easy bonus attack but my personal preference was with rogues. I really enjoyed open hand monks.
Spending ki for an extra attack is pretty good very early, but spending ki for an extra attack with a free knock down, push, or reaction denial ability is better. Reactions prevent opportunity attacks as part of the skirmisher concept to avoid being attacks or needed to disengage. Knockdown improves accuracy with advantage on following attacks until the target stands up for increased damage potential. Push has the same effect as reaction denial unless there's an environmental factor, usually, but push and knockdown allow for saves while reaction denial does not. Wholeness of body equals a daily bonus healing ability that isn't bad but useful in a pinch. Tranquility has a ton of flavor. Quivering palm is great because it's a cheap save or die effect in an edition where save or die effects have become almost completely non-existent and it can be done several times per short rest.
In my experience, open hand works if you want to play a monk and you are looking for a melee character. He can escape easily enough, if needed, and is strong defensively in ways the fighter or barbarian are not. Tough and mobile might be good feats for you with a heavy focus on WIS and DEX in your ASI's. When I was testing monks, I used human variant, point buy, and ignored STR, INT, and CHA. Between step of the wind and unarmored movement and the mobile feat I could melee kite, and using open hand technique to knock targets down meant they didn't have enough movement to get to party members staying far enough from combat; I didn't need to push or deny reaction to prevent opportunity attack because of the mobile feat.
They can be a bit behind damage builds and/or a bit behind AC builds but they do enough different things that they can do well enough for short term. You might watch your tactics to either keep combats short or use a fair bit of crowd control. Longer combats and lack of short rests can be big issues because without ki they can lose a lot. CC reduces the need to spend ki.
As with many things; that is subjective personal experience.
