Does damage awaken a sleep spell victim?

[sukael]

An easy compromise is if the person takes damage they get a bonus to the Save. I would make it significant, maybe a +3 bonus on their next save. That might still be worth a character spending a standard action on to get a bonus to wake someone up, but not as obnoxious to the caster as an automatic wake up.

It makes the sleep spell and similar effects a heck of a lot less attractive, though.

 

[Switchback]

Customer Service says only a successful save wakes you up. Response copied from the consolidated threat over at WotC forum.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1047354&page=3

Greetings! I had a few questions for you on the Sleep spell.

This spell, in the best case for the Wizard, renders the target unconscious. Is the target succeeding on a save the only thing that can remove the unconsciousness? If not, what else can remove the unconcious condition?

Also, are there any creatures that are immune to the Sleep spell? (Elves, Eladrin, Undead, Constructs, etc. ?)

-Mark

Mark,

Thank you for writing.

1. That is correct. Making your saving throw is the only way to remove the unconscious condition.

2. To check if any creatures are immune to Sleep, check the key words for Sleep against any of that creatures immunities.

Good Gaming!

Paul
Customer Service Representative
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm ES

 

[Revinor]

If the players simply use sleep, a first level spell , to take out all your solo monsters then just rule otherwise.

You have to hit solo with your daily - probably like 40% chance ?
It has to fail a save (solos have +5 to saves). 20% chance.

So, basically you are blowing up your daily spell to have 8% chance of putting the solo to sleep for 1 round. 1.5% chance for putting him to sleep for 2 rounds. And sleeping doesn't mean automatic kill - people still have to hit the monster (albeit with +5 modifier) and they deal auto crit. Critical is probably comparable to second attack on top of basic one(a lot worse on low levels, bit better on high levels), so with 5 person party, you have 8% to deal +5 attacks damage. At the cost of your daily spell.

I think it is completely in line with other possibilities - compare it to warlord daily, which can give +5 to hit for everybody till end of encounter (and you just have to hit, you don't have to hope for the save failure). THAT one is an overkill against solos.

Sleep power is really visible if you use it against the group of relative weenies. You have better chance to hit, they have reasonable chance to fail their saves.


Now, if you use the orb abilities and have very high wisdom, suddenly your chance of getting job done properly increases dramatically... but I feel it is more a problem of orb ability rather than sleep itself.

 

[DracoSuave]

Ask Sleeping Beauty how easy it is to 'just wake up from magic-induced sleep.'

This is magical sleep juju here, not a light nap during your lunch break. Different rules apply.

 

[DracoSuave]

You have to hit solo with your daily - probably like 40% chance ?
It has to fail a save (solos have +5 to saves). 20% chance.

So, basically you are blowing up your daily spell to have 8% chance of putting the solo to sleep for 1 round. 1.5% chance for putting him to sleep for 2 rounds. And sleeping doesn't mean automatic kill - people still have to hit the monster (albeit with +5 modifier) and they deal auto crit. Critical is probably comparable to second attack on top of basic one(a lot worse on low levels, bit better on high levels), so with 5 person party, you have 8% to deal +5 attacks damage. At the cost of your daily spell.

I think it is completely in line with other possibilities - compare it to warlord daily, which can give +5 to hit for everybody till end of encounter (and you just have to hit, you don't have to hope for the save failure). THAT one is an overkill against solos.

Sleep power is really visible if you use it against the group of relative weenies. You have better chance to hit, they have reasonable chance to fail their saves.


Now, if you use the orb abilities and have very high wisdom, suddenly your chance of getting job done properly increases dramatically... but I feel it is more a problem of orb ability rather than sleep itself.

Actualy crunched the math for this, and at 30th level, against the solos that are level 30, your sum total chance of getting a sleep condition off with an orb-favored wizard is 19% for the Terrasque, and 9% for the Ancient Red Dragon.

So, very slim and not reliable enough to warrant a daily and a dedicated orb-lock build to.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Umm .. assuming orb wizard starts with 16 int and 18 wis

It has +28 (24 int = +7, +15 for level, +6 for implement) to hit at level 30.
Now you also have epic destiny tricks up your sleeve ... or feats, racial features, or PP features to help boost your attack rolls.
Heck, just being an elf (+ a feat) gets you a reroll at +30.
Battle Mage is probably the nicest ... spend AP early to get +4 with both actions.
The tarrasque has a will of 32. Chances of missing negligible.

So ... you hit the Tarrasque.
And apply at least a -10 penalty to its save .. so it passes on a 15. 6/20 = 30%.

Once again, epic destinies come into play.
Demigod is probably ideal for +2 int and +2 wis.

If that's not bad enough, should there be a trickster in the party, they could just call for an auto fail on the tarrasque's save.

Let the ganking begin.

 

[DracoSuave]

Umm .. assuming orb wizard starts with 16 int and 18 wis

It has +28 (24 int = +7, +15 for level, +6 for implement) to hit at level 30.
Now you also have epic destiny tricks up your sleeve ... or feats, racial features, or PP features to help boost your attack rolls.
Heck, just being an elf (+ a feat) gets you a reroll at +30.
Battle Mage is probably the nicest ... spend AP early to get +4 with both actions.
The tarrasque has a will of 32. Chances of missing negligible.

So ... you hit the Tarrasque.
And apply at least a -10 penalty to its save .. so it passes on a 15. 6/20 = 30%.

Once again, epic destinies come into play.
Demigod is probably ideal for +2 int and +2 wis.

If that's not bad enough, should there be a trickster in the party, they could just call for an auto fail on the tarrasque's save.

Let the ganking begin.

Chance of missing, negligible, 5%. Chances of it failing its saving throw against the initial slow effect... 20%. 20% X 95% = 19% chance of getting the sleep effect to occur.

And it -does- get that round in during which it can possibly eat you.

Sleep isn't so bad once you realize that if you hit the monster, there's still just a 50/50 chance it'll be slept, and it gets that round in of NUKE THE HELL OUT OF THAT SANDMAN.

Cause the monster -knows- what's hit it. That's part of the new rules.

 

[Danceofmasks]

And ... the wizard takes what, 40 damage?
Irrelevant.

 

[DracoSuave]

Let the ganking begin.

Or the Terrasque uses Burrow 2 and gets out of dodge while slumbering away.... and wakes up -angry- and with a target.

 

[Danceofmasks]

The tarrasque burrows 2 squares and fails to get its space below the floor (it is slowed)!

This is still beside the point ... a control wizard really should open with prismatic spray or legion's hold or something that has an instantaneous stun ... I'm just saying sleeping a solo of your level isn't <20%
In a well-oiled party, it should be quite reliable (at that level).
At lower levels, due to lower wis, you're actually less of a threat.