Does DnD encourage racist thinking?
- Thread starter NoOneofConsequence
- Start date
Dragonblade
Adventurer
The word "racism" itself, carries negative connotations that preclude its use even where appropriate.
Are elves racist against orcs? Sure, but since in the context of the fantasy milieu where orcs have been predetermined to be evil by the dark gods or genetics or what have you, then there is nothing wrong with elven "racism".
Indeed if the elves were tolerant and accepting of the orcs they would be setting themselves up for betrayal and destruction. Because the orcs, who we know are evil, would simply use the tolerance of the elves against them to destroy them and enslave them.
Thus elven racism against orcs is justified and necessary for their own survival. It becomes good to destroy orcs in much the same way you would destroy a virus that had invaded your body.
Now if you play in a fantasy world that more closely mirrors the real world, well then racism does become evil. If orcs have the same moral capacity of a human than you can't simply judge all orcs evil and kill them on sight. At least from a 20th century modern morality perspective.
The problem lies in DMs who run a world of fantasy medieval brutality and thinking and then try to impose modern morality on the players.
Either your world is medieval and brutal for BOTH the players and NPCs or it is not. If orcs rape and pillage in your world, then it is not fair to judge the players or the game itself as "racist" for killing orcs on sight and condemning them as "evil". The orcs ARE evil within the context of the game's "reality" and the notion of racism as we understand it in 20th century America is completely irrelevant.
A game based on fantasy medieval thinking, ethos, and morality where the gods are REAL and so is magic cannot be judged with the social and cultural yardsticks of our own vastly different world where we have no gods (at least visibly), no magic, and no orcs.
Are elves racist against orcs? Sure, but since in the context of the fantasy milieu where orcs have been predetermined to be evil by the dark gods or genetics or what have you, then there is nothing wrong with elven "racism".
Indeed if the elves were tolerant and accepting of the orcs they would be setting themselves up for betrayal and destruction. Because the orcs, who we know are evil, would simply use the tolerance of the elves against them to destroy them and enslave them.
Thus elven racism against orcs is justified and necessary for their own survival. It becomes good to destroy orcs in much the same way you would destroy a virus that had invaded your body.
Now if you play in a fantasy world that more closely mirrors the real world, well then racism does become evil. If orcs have the same moral capacity of a human than you can't simply judge all orcs evil and kill them on sight. At least from a 20th century modern morality perspective.
The problem lies in DMs who run a world of fantasy medieval brutality and thinking and then try to impose modern morality on the players.
Either your world is medieval and brutal for BOTH the players and NPCs or it is not. If orcs rape and pillage in your world, then it is not fair to judge the players or the game itself as "racist" for killing orcs on sight and condemning them as "evil". The orcs ARE evil within the context of the game's "reality" and the notion of racism as we understand it in 20th century America is completely irrelevant.
A game based on fantasy medieval thinking, ethos, and morality where the gods are REAL and so is magic cannot be judged with the social and cultural yardsticks of our own vastly different world where we have no gods (at least visibly), no magic, and no orcs.
racism
I think different racial traits are just guidelines to give the player a feel for the character they have chosen. they are natural abilities that the different races possess. They are also positive traits that anyone would be glad to have. Racism stems from false characteristics that are negative traits. it gives a player a chance to differentiate their character from other players and build on a that foundation. The races benefit from their natural abilities.
I think different racial traits are just guidelines to give the player a feel for the character they have chosen. they are natural abilities that the different races possess. They are also positive traits that anyone would be glad to have. Racism stems from false characteristics that are negative traits. it gives a player a chance to differentiate their character from other players and build on a that foundation. The races benefit from their natural abilities.
Dragonblade
Adventurer
My entire point is that you can't just substitute (real world culture) for (fantasy world culture).
The whole basis of the elf-orc relationship dynamic within a given fantasy world is composed of so many factors that are completely alien to a Russian-Polish or German-Jew dynamic in our world. And vice-versa.
They are not simply interchangeable. Gods, wizards, dark cults, deities, etc. make such a cultural substitution utterly meaningless.
The whole basis of the elf-orc relationship dynamic within a given fantasy world is composed of so many factors that are completely alien to a Russian-Polish or German-Jew dynamic in our world. And vice-versa.
They are not simply interchangeable. Gods, wizards, dark cults, deities, etc. make such a cultural substitution utterly meaningless.
Darkness
Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
Quite so.LostSoul said:
BTW, anyone interested in a very thorough debate of exactly this point should look no further than this rpg.net thread.
LostSoul
Adventurer
Dragonblade said:
I can understand that, but I don't agree. Anyways, on the topic of racism, we all have to relate things that we encounter in the game to things in the real world. Thus the analogy. You can easily relate orcs to "bad guys", whomever they may be; evil clerics to "bad guy leaders", dark cults to "bad guy hidden societies", etc. I understand what you are talking about, but there is nothing in D&D fantasy that can't be related to the real world.
But I don't think it's a big deal at all. Just play and have fun; even if your campaign revolves around humans retaking lost lands or power due to demi-human integration. But then again, I don't really believe in evil, so there you go.
Dragonblade
Adventurer
In my world, orcs are born evil. But again, orcs are orcs. They are not Russian, German, Jew, Muslim, or (insert minority group here). Nor will they ever be anything but orcs.
Its just like the people who claim Star Wars is racist. That Jar Jar is based on a negative black stereotype. Well, that opinion just shows me that there are people who watch Star Wars through the lens of their own biased thinking.
The same goes for DnD. If you see some sort of modern day parallel between a fictional fantasy race and a real world culture than its your own subjective beliefs that have propelled you to make such a conclusion.
The only "racism" in DnD is the "racism" that you expect to see.
Its just like the people who claim Star Wars is racist. That Jar Jar is based on a negative black stereotype. Well, that opinion just shows me that there are people who watch Star Wars through the lens of their own biased thinking.
The same goes for DnD. If you see some sort of modern day parallel between a fictional fantasy race and a real world culture than its your own subjective beliefs that have propelled you to make such a conclusion.
The only "racism" in DnD is the "racism" that you expect to see.
