Does DR protect against falling damage?

[Nail]

Should text in a psionic power in ancillary rules provide us with guidance with a core rule problem?

Spoiler

You'll pardon me if I don't take the rules printed in the XPH as fundamental rules to hang my hat on.

Moreover, it could be argued that the power is giving an additional benefit, outside of DR. I.e. perhaps you take half damage from a fall, and then you subtract DR.

 

[Egres]

Should text in a psionic power in ancillary rules provide us with guidance with a core rule problem?

Yes, if the core rules can't provide a solid answer to our issue.

 

[Egres]

Note the last sentence.

Note: I'm on the "DR doesn't work for falling damage" side.

 

[Mark Chance]

Yes, DR does protect against falling damage. Why do I get to say this? Because I'm the DM.

 

[lukelightning]

I am very much on the "DR works vs falling" side.

Movie villain deaths aside (in which the hero doesn't actually kill be bad guy...he just falls off a building, probably onto a spike) I find it ludicrous that it is easier to kill a demon with DR/good by pushing it down a hill than it is to hit it with a weapon.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

The purpose of me asking these questions is to show why the implied meaning behind your statement doesn't hold water.

Does that mean that skeleton actually doesn't apply his DR? What kind of damage would a rocky outcropping do? At what point does it go from 'bludgeoning' to 'piercing'? And, although everyone ignored my question, does an adamantine floor overcome DR/adamantine?

1. Sorry, too much CSI. I meant to Say Trauma, not blunt trauma. Any physical damage (slashing, piercing, etc). I sounded like a Police report "And the goblin died by blunt trauma to the head".

2. Falling on an Adamantine Floor would overcome DR/-Adamantine (assuming it was refined Adamantine & not just adamantine infuse ore).

3. My answer does hold water as it is very concave. Or, I just presented my position very poorly. Here is a better example.

Supposition: A race of Halflings with DR 5/Adamantine (so it’s a Ex as opposed to Su ability).

Say one of these Halflings is climbing up a 500' cliff when he fails his Climb check (horribly) near the top & falls to his doom. At the half-way point he hits an outcropping with a nice rock on it. A good sized rock. A nice flat one like you would use to skip over a pond, if you could pick up a 500 pound rock.

Does the Halfling get to apply his DR 5/Admanatine against the rock he hit? (not as if knocking off 5 really matters at that point).


Now, his dear old grandfather wonders why Bill (I'll call Splat #1 Bill) hasn't returned from his cliff climbing, so he goes to look for him. When he gets to the base of the cliff he spies poor old Bill's flattened remains half-way up the cliff. Unfortunately for Ted (I'll call gramps Ted), as he's looking up at the Bill's final resting place an Earthquake hits, shaking Bill (and his finally resting place down the face of the cliff). Now, Ted rolls a 1 on his Reflex save to get out of the way and Bill's Final Resting Place (the Nice Rock) lands on Ted's head. Then his Shoulders. Then his Torso, then on down to his feet whereupon said Nice Rock finally stops with poor old Ted beneath it.

Does Ted get to apply his DR 5/Adamantine against the Rock that hit him? (Again, not as if knocking 5 points off matters much.

Then, along comes Reinhold the Hill Giant. He notices the Nice Rock (now painted a pretty red on both sides). As really, really Nice Rocks are hard to find (especially pre-coated in gore ones) Reinhold is very happy & looks to try out his new Nice Rock as soon as he can.

Alas, Rob (Bill's Brother) is out searching for Bill & Ted. As family luck would run he rolls a '1' on his Hide check & Reinhold Spots him. Anxious to try out his new Nice Rock, he wings it at poor Rob for a direct hit. In fact, the blow would likely have killed him had it not been for his Damage Reduction 5/Adamantine. Of course, the next round he losses Initiative & the Reinhold does a Charge/Full Power Attack Critical Hit with his Great club and Rob becomes Hill Giant Stew.

So, why did Rob get his DR 5/Adamantine against the VERY SAME NICE ROCK that did in Bill & Ted?

The rules are very clear that the DR works vs a Giant's Thrown Rock. What is so special (actually unspecial) about the Hill Giant once he picks up a rock DR suddenly kicks in?

I've made a point to make this Ex DR as Opposed to Su DR. Su, is after all, Supernatural, and the old, Magic is just plain weird defense kicks in.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The rules are very clear that the DR works vs a Giant's Thrown Rock. What is so special (actually unspecial) about the Hill Giant once he picks up a rock DR suddenly kicks in?

How about, because it's an attack? Or, how about letting the DR apply to the rock in both other instances because you can qualify the rock as a weapon even though it's not being wielding by someone? You'll note that the definition of DR allows for that. This is the part where your example doesn't really hold enough water because both sides can still straddle it. If you try to take something and turn it into both a weapon and a non-weapon, you get into inconsistencies. Instead, treat it as a weapon, or not, but not both.

I've made a point to make this Ex DR as Opposed to Su DR. Su, is after all, Supernatural, and the old, Magic is just plain weird defense kicks in.

Me, too, which is why I used a skeleton.

Now, can you respond to my queries?

 

[IcyCool]

Note: I'm on the "DR doesn't work for falling damage" side.

The two sentences you bolded implied that you felt that the power said your DR applied against falling damage. If that wasn't your intent, then it wasn't clear to me.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

How about, because it's an attack? Or, how about letting the DR apply to the rock in both other instances because you can qualify the rock as a weapon even though it's not being wielding by someone? You'll note that the definition of DR allows for that. This is the part where your example doesn't really hold enough water because both sides can still straddle it. If you try to take something and turn it into both a weapon and a non-weapon, you get into inconsistencies. Instead, treat it as a weapon, or not, but not both.

So items that can be used as both a 'Sudden Stop at the End' AND a weapon don't apply.

Well.....

That does make it hard. In the 10+ years I've been gaming a list of items that have NEVER been used by a PC/monster as an improvised weapon is pretty short. In fact, with all the special abilities and size categories, I'd be hard put to come up with something that a PC/Monster could fall on, but could NEVER be used as a weapon in some fashion.

Heck, due to one mis-worded Wish I've seen a player killed by the Moon falling on him.

So I guess the above example was to show that if DR applies ONLY when you fall on something that can also be used as a weapon by some D&D/d20 monster, your best bet is to just let the DR Apply.

But, a more logical argument.

1. Falling doesn't hurt. In fact you take no damage from falling any distance. You can fall 1,000 feet and take no damage. It's when you are 999 feet above the surface that the 1,000 ft fall's a bi***. Or, It isn't the fall that hurt's, it's the sudden stop at the end. The damage from falling comes from the rapid deaccelation of your body into a solid/semi-solid surface. It seems to me falling is nothing more than a imposed thwacking with a blunt (sometimes) object. Thus falling IS a form of physical damage no different than a ogre's mace, or a sellsword's greataxe.

I envision DR (esp the Ex kind) as a sort of armor that is an intrinsic part of your anatomy, as much as skin/hair/bones/teeth etc. Thus the DR is always there. Always looking to absorb a portion of blows dealt you, whatever the source. The Damage Reduction cannot tell between a rock thrown by a giant, a stone falling from the sky, or a great fall. As long as the damage is physical, I let the DR Kick in.

I read the MM description of DR to mean 'physical damage regardless of source'. Thus a fall (physical damage) falls under that category.

In summary.

Weapons mean DR applies. When you fall, you hit something, causing damage. Some creature will be able to use the something you fell onto as a weapon. Thus the something is a potential weapon. Thus DR applies.

For me, its more a layer of consistencay than any strict rules interpretation. I just find the Barbarian that stubs his toe & hops up and down because it hurts, but when the halfling picks up said rock and chucks it right between the eye's, the barbarian goes "That no hurt, Thog have Damage Reduction 3/-" silly.

I guess our disagreement comes from what can be a potential weapon. I say that with which the potential to do Physical Damage is merely a weapon unused (or unusable by many), but that doesn't mean its not a weapon.

Or, in the same fashion. If you drop an object from a great height, does it's Hardness apply to the damage dealt by the fall?

 

[Infiniti2000]

So I guess the above example was to show that if DR applies ONLY when you fall on something that can also be used as a weapon by some D&D/d20 monster, your best bet is to just let the DR Apply.

It's the same thing as when you consider critical hits, too, as I showed in another example. This just makes it more consistent. If you can be criticalled by that the giant throwing a rock, why can't you be criticalled by falling on it? There's still no difference, right? Isn't the DR argument identical? So, if you apply DR to falling on that rock even though it's not an attack, you should have some chance (whatever that may be) to get critted by that rock, even though it's not an attack.

If you drop an object from a great height, does it's Hardness apply to the damage dealt by the fall?

Yes. Hardness applies to 'damage' and is not restricted to just an attack.