Does healer's armor stack with a healer's brooch?

[DracoSuave]

Actually at least one does indeed say that:
Property: When you use a healing power, the target regains additional hit points equal to the armor’s enhancement bonus.

For the other one you can make your arguement I guess - still seemed worded more as a way to get a value than a type but meh - worst intepretation is one is an Enhancement Bonus the other is Untyped (and equal to an items enhancement bonus). So they would stack as Enhancement stack with Untyped

I still think they are overpowered and should be given matching types to not stack but RAW they do indeed stack atm..

I don't see a laundering of bonus there.

It does not say, 'gets a bonus to healing equal to'. It just flat out adds the enhancement bonus directly. Again, that's different than Staff of Ruin, which launders the bonus by saying it's a different bonus equal to the enhancement bonus.

In this case, the only existance of the word 'bonus' has the word 'enhancement' before it.

 

[Nichwee]

It does not say, 'gets a bonus to healing equal to'. It just flat out adds the enhancement bonus directly. Again, that's different than Staff of Ruin, which launders the bonus by saying it's a different bonus equal to the enhancement bonus.

It has "additional hit points equal to" which is the same as for Subtle Weapons which say "Deal extra damage equal to this weapon's enhancement bonus" - which can't be an enhancement bonus as it wouldn't stack with its own damage if it was. So if Subtle Weapons aren't adding enhancement bonuses with their property neither is this item (Healer's Armor).

This is an Untyped bonus that only mentions the words "Ehnancement" or "Bonus" in their amount calculation. This could have been written like it is on Critical: entries as "an additional hit point per plus of this item" but I think that is a rather poor wording for a sentence when "equal to enhancement bonus" says the same thing.

 

[DracoSuave]

It has "additional hit points equal to" which is the same as for Subtle Weapons which say "Deal extra damage equal to this weapon's enhancement bonus" - which can't be an enhancement bonus as it wouldn't stack with its own damage if it was. So if Subtle Weapons aren't adding enhancement bonuses with their property neither is this item (Healer's Armor).

In the case of a Subtle weapon, that would be a contradiction of the general rule, the item could not work unless it broke the rules, therefore it contradicts, therefore it must break the rules. The healing items each individually work fine without breaking the bonus types rule, however, therefore are not a contradiction, therefore apply the general rule.

This is an Untyped bonus that only mentions the words "Ehnancement" or "Bonus" in their amount calculation. This could have been written like it is on Critical: entries as "an additional hit point per plus of this item" but I think that is a rather poor wording for a sentence when "equal to enhancement bonus" says the same thing.

Again, the healing items do not contradict the rule on stacking bonuses, so there's no reason not to apply that rule.

 

[Nichwee]

You are just saying that the use of the word "enhancement" in the text, at any point, makes it an "enhancement bonus", unless a specific type is included?

New Items:
Viagra:
Daily
Until you take a short rest you are assumed to have male enhancement.
Special This can only be used by males.
Link's Aftershave:
Daily
Until the end of the encounter, any diplomacy check you or your party makes against a female gain +1 per member of the party with male enhancement.
Special: This can only be used by males.

So is the Link's effect an enhancement bonus or untyped

 

[Nichwee]

In the case of a Subtle weapon, that would be a contradiction of the general rule, the item could not work unless it broke the rules, therefore it contradicts, therefore it must break the rules.

Btw just because something does not work, does not make it IMPLICITLY a contradiction. It makes it pointless.
And the Subtle Weapon can work without assuming it is a contradiction (just very badly) by attacking with a non-magic weapon in your main hand and Subtle Weapon in your offhand.
This would be a stupid thing to do, but not a automatic contradiction.

 

[DracoSuave]

You are just saying that the use of the word "enhancement" in the text, at any point, makes it an "enhancement bonus", unless a specific type is included?

New Items:
Viagra:
Daily
Until you take a short rest you are assumed to have male enhancement.
Special This can only be used by males.
Link's Aftershave:
Daily
Until the end of the encounter, any diplomacy check you or your party makes against a female gain +1 per member of the party with male enhancement.
Special: This can only be used by males.

So is the Link's effect an enhancement bonus or untyped

Of course not.

I'm saying that the use of the words 'enhancement bonus' together, used to describe a trait of an item that is called an enhancement bonus that is being used as a positive modifier to something, is what makes it an enhancement bonus.

It's not the word 'enhancement' being taken out of context.

It's the phrase 'enhancement bonus' being used as the only way to describe what is going on there that defines it as such.


Property: When you use a healing power, the target regains additional hit points equal to the armor’s enhancement bonus.

Property: When you use a power that enables you or an ally to regain hit points, add the brooch’s enhancement bonus to the hit points gained.

 

[Zinovia]

Or you can houserule the entire mess by saying that all bonuses granted by items are item bonuses, and don't stack with each other. I'm tempted to do that because these stacking bonuses to heals are ridiculous. It doesn't help LFR games, but that's WotC's mess to deal with (if they choose to do so). Adding 4 different item bonuses to your heal is just getting silly.

Battle Standard of healing does NOT get your other item bonuses added to it.
These other things shouldn't stack with each other.
I should win the lottery.
There, that'll fix everything.

 

[Nichwee]

But you seem incapable of seeing that the term "enhancement bonus" can be simply be an amount and not a keyword activation.
It can be just a way of saying "numerical value equal to 1 + the integer devide (level of this item-1)/5" that doesn't take so long.

If the property doesn't state a bonus type the bonus is untyped.

And according to Page 275 an enhancement bonus effects only Defence, Attacks or Damage so you can't get an enhancement bonus to healing - unless explicitly stated as such - and this isn't saying "get an enhancement bonus to" anything it is saying "get a bonus to ... of a value ...." so doesn't count as a copntradiction to Page 275 - so can't be an enhancement bonus.

 

[Zinovia]

But you seem incapable of seeing that the term "enhancement bonus" can be simply be an amount and not a keyword activation.
It can be just a way of saying "numerical value equal to ((level of this item-1) modulo 5) +1" that doesn't take so long.

If the property doesn't state a bonus type the bonus is untyped.

The enhancement bonus wording is just as Nichwee states, in my opinion. It's a way of saying "that number which is equal to the bonus on your weapon / item", not a bonus type.

It might be nice if it implied a typed bonus, so that they didn't stack, but I don't personally read it that way.

 

[Nichwee]

Or you can houserule the entire mess by saying that all bonuses granted by items are item bonuses, and don't stack with each other. I'm tempted to do that because these stacking bonuses to heals are ridiculous. It doesn't help LFR games, but that's WotC's mess to deal with (if they choose to do so). Adding 4 different item bonuses to your heal is just getting silly.

Battle Standard of healing does NOT get your other item bonuses added to it.
These other things shouldn't stack with each other.
I should win the lottery.
There, that'll fix everything.

Totally agree - but I was just saying I don't believe that is what the RAW currently do for these items, and why.