Does Hypnotism automatically start a combat?

[Noumenon]

Most PCs and NPCs would automatically see a stranger casting spells as a reason to roll initiative, right? So the only way you'd ever get the better save DC is to get a surprise round, and then win the initiative roll?

 

[Omegaxicor]

Well, it would depend entirely on the situation and the DM

I would say that if the party aren't already in combat then the spell doesn't start one

 

[Sekhmet]

If you were to see a man holding a firearm, would you immediately charge and attack him? Probably not, but you'd certainly be suspicious. Noncombatives wouldn't be interesting in attacking the caster unless they were actually attacked.
Likewise, magic in D&D has a myriad of beneficial effects as well, so the average PC/NPC would probably not attack a caster until they took a hostile action against them - they couldn't be sure until the end of the casting, anyway.

 

[frankthedm]

If you were to see a man holding a firearm, would you immediately charge and attack him?

Who has the gun out and where are we? Because there are a lot of places you should be rushing the person bringing out the weapon before it can be brought to bear, to say nothing of if the agitator is actually brandishing the weapon. Because of how fast these can take place, initiative should be called for if someone was watching the caster with suspicion when he tries to cast.

And since hypnotism has a One Round casting time, even if the caster GETS the surprise round, the surprised people have a chance of acting BEFORE the caster finishes casting in the first non surprise round.

Likewise, magic in D&D has a myriad of beneficial effects as well, so the average PC/NPC would probably not attack a caster until they took a hostile action against them - they couldn't be sure until the end of the casting, anyway.

They don't know you and unless you deceived them ahead of time, they should be acting with suspicion if you start chanting gods know what in a powerful voice and making weird hand gestures. Doing that is like showing off what could be a remote control detonator to someone who doesn't know you.

 

[Greenfield]

Most people can't tell the difference between someone casting Detect Evil and casting Fireball, at least until things start to go Boom.

It takes a Spellcraft check to know the difference, and most folks don't have it.

That being said, the casting of *any* spell could start a fight, depending on the spectator's "Save v Paranoia".

If you want to be able to control people subtly, learn to cast subtly. As in using the Still Spell feat, and or Silent Spell feat, or just knowing the spell's range, and how many minuses your targets get to their Spot and Listen checks at that range.

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=1164]frankthedm[/MENTION]
You're assuming that people are generally violent, rather than generally suspicious or cautious.
Obviously, circumstance can definitely alter the typical outcome (suspicious). If you were a Dwarf in an Orc military camp, wearing the battle armor of their most bitter adversaries, then yes - battle would be the first thing that the orcs would think of.

If you're the typical guy, starting to cast a spell, in the typical setting, and some random NPCs happened to see it, they would most likely be suspicious until the spell came to fruition.

 

[Noumenon]

Many things PC's meet are concerned specifically with trying to kill them, and save-or-dies exist. So paranoia makes sense. But, instantly pulling out your gun and shooting someone dialing a cell phone because they could be triggering an IED does seem a little hasty unless you're in a war zone. Is a dungeon that?

I suppose I could calm this tendency by having a lot of noncombat encounters start with a detect evil or self-buff. But "my Spellcraft says it's hypnotism" will get a lot of combats going.

The other important thing about whether people perceive casting as a threat is that it matters a lot whether your initial attitude toward the caster is hostile or indifferent. If you're on edge the moment they cast near you, their request is going to get only an indifferent response. If you were indifferent to having them cast, you'll be full-on helpful afterwards.

I just don't know the intent. Is this spell supposed to be like suggestion if you can catch an enemy alone, or only if you cast it on a friendly willing target? Is it supposed to be near-useless in the default dungeon situation, or is it a spell that could work well if you get it off before they act and then talk to the rest of the party instead of fight?

 

[frankthedm]

Is it supposed to be near-useless in the default dungeon situation

two points difference of DC does not make the sell useless.

or is it a spell that could work well if you get it off before they act and then talk to the rest of the party instead of fight?

You pretty much have to beat your allies in initiative to get the best use out of charm person as well.

 

[Noumenon]

Besides the DC difference, there is the "starts as hostile" issue. You're also likely to get shaken awake.

If you want to be able to control people subtly, learn to cast subtly. As in using the Still Spell feat, and or Silent Spell feat, or just knowing the spell's range, and how many minuses your targets get to their Spot and Listen checks at that range.

I've had people argue that Silent and Still can't be used because the spell's description says it works by your gestures and droning incantations.

Edit: Charm Person at least can be cast either during a surprise round or by winning intiative. Hypnotism requires both at once.

 

[Sekhmet]

Yes, Hypnotism requires specific gestures and sounds.
Feats change the basic rules of the entire game - why can't they change the basics of a single spell?

Quick aside, have nothing else relevant to say.