D&D 5E Does Magic Initiate need changing?

[Ancalagon]

The feat should be rewritten to be in line with how such feats are handled these days, with the 1st level spell gained becoming effectively a known and memorized spell that can be cast with your normal spell slots. The current status, where (by RAW) it only does that if you are a memorized caster taking it in your own class, is way too convoluted and counterintuitive, and the misbegotten child of poor phrasing.

But beyond the actual way the level one spell works being needlessly complicated by RAW it also makes the feat a trap choice for anyone who isn't well versed in level one 5e spells and who doesn't read an optimizing guide to learn which handful of spells might make sense if you can only ever cast them once a day (and to eventually just decide to take Find Familiar or Hex). If one could use their other spell slots for more castings then for casters any good level 1 spell would be a reasonable choice rather than just the handful that get a lot of use out of one casting, which really simplifies taking the feat a lot.

Beyond that I don't think the feat needs to be a half feat or anything like that. The breadth of choices it makes available makes it better than its competitors.

I'll note that this "breath of choice" is... well it's a bit of an illusion for the level 1 spell isn't it? I do agree with you that it should not be a half feat (it would be definitely better than fey touched!), but I wonder if a small extra perk (like what was suggested above) would be better?

I'll also note that giving this feat to an NPC is a great way to make someone the "village mage". If some old person has a crow that spies for them and can be use to carry small message to the town mage a few leagues away, can make light appear out of thin air and throw bolts of ice? That's a wizard!!!

 

[DND_Reborn]

A lot to discuss here!

First, I totally agree with you that making MI a "half feat" with a +1 stat bonus is too good. A little "perk" might be nice, and the suggestion you propose is quite reasonable. I also agree that MI is still a very decent feat.

So one thing you'll note between FT and ST is scaling. Bless, hex, misty step, hunter's mark, all stay pretty useful no mater your level. False life and inflict wounds sort of become less significant as you go up in levels. I feel FT is clearly better than ST, but it's a difference in power level I'm ok with.

Yeah, IMO FT is definitely "better" than ST for the most part except for me invisibility ranks SUPER HIGH, especially at lower levels (which most people play), which more (but not quite) evens the field.

Anyway, my final suggestion if you want a perk for MI to bring it up to snuff with the other is detect magic.

Also, as myself and others have noted, if you allow the 1st level spell from MI to be castable with slots like FT/ST do, that might also be enough to even things out.

Thanks for the discussion, it's been fun.

 

[Horwath]

Yeah, IMO FT is definitely "better" than ST for the most part except for me invisibility ranks SUPER HIGH, especially at lower levels (which most people play), which more (but not quite) evens the field.

Anyway, my final suggestion if you want a perk for MI to bring it up to snuff with the other is detect magic.

Also, as myself and others have noted, if you allow the 1st level spell from MI to be castable with slots like FT/ST do, that might also be enough to even things out.

Thanks for the discussion, it's been fun.

I still feel that 2 cantrips and 1st level spell from one class does not match fixed 2nd level spell and semi-fixed 1st level spell with +1 ASI.

Maybe if MI is made totally class agnostic?

Magic initiate:
pick any 2 cantrips from any class spell list.
Pick one 1st level spell from any class list. You can cast it once per long rest and can cast it with any 1st level or higher spell slots.
Spell casting ability is highest of int, wis or cha.

 

[Joshy]

Magic Initiate:
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard.

• You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class's spell list.
• You learn one 1st-level spell of your choice from that class's spell list.
• You gain an additional 1st level spell slot.

 

[Weiley31]

Just add the "you can cast the spells it gives you via Spell Slots" like all the other spell granting feats up to this point.

 

[Joshy]

Just add the "you can cast the spells it gives you via Spell Slots" like all the other spell granting feats up to this point.

I prefer it that way as well but this is one of the most common changes in my groups.
Some of my groups don't allow any other spell granting feats.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I still feel that 2 cantrips and 1st level spell from one class does not match fixed 2nd level spell and semi-fixed 1st level spell with +1 ASI.

Well, I agree it MI does not match FT/ST, but there are many feats that don't "match" other feats. Feats are not balanced against each other and many are inferior to the best 5-6 IMO. BUT what is "best" is a bit subjective according to player, character, and table of course.

I don't feel, personally, any reason MI needs to match FT/ST. Granting detect magic would be my solution if I really felt it needed a bit something more.

Also, we all know (hopefully) that just about ever later release will suffer from power creep--it always happens IME and Tasha's is no exception.

FWIW, your solution sounds completely reasonable as well and I think there are any number of ways to improve MI if a table decides it needs a boost.

 

[CleverNickName]

Eh, I reject the notion that feats need to "match" each other in power or utility. There's already plenty of same-ness to go around.

 

[Stormonu]

Magic initiate is fine as is. The later feats are just Power Creep (and I don't allow them).

Wouldn't be bad if there was an add-on feat that allowed you add higher level spells, with a character level minimum (4th for 2nd, 8th for 3rd, 12th for 4th doesn't sound too out of bounds).

 

[Horwath]

Well, I agree it MI does not match FT/ST, but there are many feats that don't "match" other feats. Feats are not balanced against each other and many are inferior to the best 5-6 IMO. BUT what is "best" is a bit subjective according to player, character, and table of course.

I don't feel, personally, any reason MI needs to match FT/ST. Granting detect magic would be my solution if I really felt it needed a bit something more.

Also, we all know (hopefully) that just about ever later release will suffer from power creep--it always happens IME and Tasha's is no exception.

FWIW, your solution sounds completely reasonable as well and I think there are any number of ways to improve MI if a table decides it needs a boost.

Power creep is always a problem, but so is imbalance in original release.

But, any feat is compared to +2 to primary ability. If a feat does not compete to +2 to primary ability at levels 4 or 8, there is something wrong with that feat.

And MI is in that area. It does not IMHO, feel worth +2 in ability, and yet, giving it +1 ASI would make is little too good.
it seems like 3/4 of a feat. Something like that. So either give it a little boost(extra cantrip or extra 1st level spell, or extra utility), or a little nerf: remove 1 cantrip or remove 1st level spell and make it "half-feat".