Does Summoning need line of sight?

[Greybar]

Quick question that's isn't clear to me:

When summoning a creature, do you need line of sight to where it will appear?

I'd let people do it before along the lines of "I'll have the ape appear 15 feet that way", but I'm wondering if I should rein that in.

john

 

[gfunk]

Yes, for any spell with a range you need line of sight unless it specifies otherwise in the text (e.g. Teleport).

 

[KarinsDad]

Yes, for any spell with a range you need line of sight unless it specifies otherwise in the text (e.g. Teleport).

This is incorrect.

You need line of effect for spells, not line of sight.

You could, for example, throw a Fireball into a Fog Cloud. You would, in that case, have line of effect, but you would not have line of sight.

If you do not have line of sight, your spell might mis-target and show up not exactly where you intended it to (it will still go exact distances, but since you cannot see, that still might not be where you intended it to go), but the spell will still go off.

So, you can summon a creature where you cannot see as long as you have line of effect.

 

[gfunk]

This is incorrect.
You need line of effect for spells, not line of sight.

Oops, you're right. I mixed them up.

 

[Nail]

So, you can summon a creature where you cannot see as long as you have line of effect.

And how would you figure "miss chance", as well as were it would go if you misaimed it?

THat is: were in the rules does it give examples of this? (Or does the DM just fudge it?)

 

[Philip]

And how would you figure "miss chance", as well as were it would go if you misaimed it?

On non-targeted spells like summoning, there's no such thing as a miss chance. You can summon things when surrounded by complete darkness (or with your eyes closed), no probs.

 

[dcollins]

Agreed that you don't need line of sight, you need line of effect. This is explained pretty well in the PHB magic chapter, and mentions conjuring a monster as an example (ch. 10, "Casting a Spell: Aiming a Spell: Line of Effect", 3.0 PHB p. 150).

My analogy is that you can cast a spell anywhere in range that you could shoot a bullet, or target a laser pointer, for example.

 

[Piratecat]

I agree about the line of effect. Note that this means you can't summon a monster into a closed crate, or onto the opposite side of a wall of force.

When casting into areas where it may be difficult for the spellcaster to measure the spell's target point, we sometimes require an easy spellcraft roll to hit your target precisely. That's definitely a house rule, albeit a useful one.

 

[Philip]

When casting into areas where it may be difficult for the spellcaster to measure the spell's target point, we sometimes require an easy spellcraft roll to hit your target precisely. That's definitely a house rule, albeit a useful one.

Like summoning a monster on the other side of a wall by aiming the line of effect through an arrow slit?

 

[Greybar]

Thanks everyone.

Our heroes were breaking into the throne room of opponents that had multiple Summon Monster spells and spell-like effects handy. I went with the line-of-effect, which was a tremendous boon for the heroes since they were not assailed by summoned creatures as soon as they started bashing on the doors.

The enemy priest tried two Summon Monster Vs during combat, one of which was disrupted by a lightning bolt.

I think I'd go with the Spellcraft check for mentally placing a spell through a difficult line of effect, though I'd agree that is a House Rule and not SRD.

john