Does the Hand of Vecna in Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus mean Vecna is now an FR God too?

Seramus

Explorer
If Acererak can get to the Realms, so can Vecna, but probably only as an avatar or sneaky presence. But as others have noted, Avernus is not in Realmspace in the first place, so it’s not an issue.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
If Acererak can get to the Realms, so can Vecna, but probably only as an avatar or sneaky presence. But as others have noted, Avernus is not in Realmspace in the first place, so it’s not an issue.
Acerak isn't a deity and FR has an overpower who gets to decide who can be a god in the Realms.
 

Seramus

Explorer
Acerak isn't a deity and FR has an overpower who gets to decide who can be a god in the Realms.
AO wouldn’t do anything unless Vecna was poised to succeed at some Die Vecna, Die level shenanigans. Heck, AO didn’t even step in to stop Acererak who would have massively imbalanced the Realms.
 
AO wouldn’t do anything unless Vecna was poised to succeed at some Die Vecna, Die level shenanigans. Heck, AO didn’t even step in to stop Acererak who would have massively imbalanced the Realms.
I could have sworn somewhere that i saw content saying vecna actually has at least a thimble full so to speak of divine influence in/over faerun even though hes not directly there. Possibly but not necessarily in spite of ao. Hes the god of secrets. Shouldnt be too surprised to hear this. Or just simply because ao isnt stopping it. I dont think it was specific. And its probably because his influence is minor. I saw it many many years ago though and never touched it after seeing the vague mention so i dont know much about it. Perhaps there is someone here who remembers a little more about it? There is something injust dont remember the particulars. Furthermore, ao has contemporaries when you widen the scope of your viewing enough and one or more superiors. Vecna is just enough of a shake up figure that it could be conceivanle hes always been part if a bigger plan. Possibly one that is signed off on by someone as high as or higher than ao when you widen the viewing scope of the multiversal lens enough. Hes always been a deity that the normal rules didnt perfectly apply to. At this point when vecnas influemce spreads wider faster or further (even if suntly) than a normal god its not so much a mcguffen as it is part of who vecna is. Which is why although i dont remember where i read about his minor influemce there i was also entirely unsurprised when i saw a minor reference to it.
 
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DEFCON 1

Legend
Hundreds of thousands of creatures can be and are immortal. Whether or not you are a "deity" of a particular realm just depends on whether anyone worships you or not. Vecna can be immortal and can be known in the Forgotten Realms by isolated people throughout history via planar connections... but if no one in Faerun worships him, then he's not a god there. Same thing with Asmodeus... he might be known as the Archduke of the Ninth, but if nobody workships him as a god there, his only divine status remains in Nerath where they do.
 
Hundreds of thousands of creatures can be and are immortal. Whether or not you are a "deity" of a particular realm just depends on whether anyone worships you or not. Vecna can be immortal and can be known in the Forgotten Realms by isolated people throughout history via planar connections... but if no one in Faerun worships him, then he's not a god there. Same thing with Asmodeus... he might be known as the Archduke of the Ninth, but if nobody workships him as a god there, his only divine status remains in Nerath where they do.
True. But the issue is he has a bit of divine influence. Albeit the reference escapes me. So the question is why and how much?
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
But what is "divine influence"? Having any worshippers at all? I mean demons and devils all have worshippers from every Tom, Dick and Harry cult, but that doesn't classify them as "gods" in those realms.

So either being a god is strictly a matter of the in-game religious people of a particular setting choosing within the fiction that "these are our gods"... or there's some sort of "out of game" number-of-worshippers level an immortal being has to have to be classified as one in a particular setting.

In either event... I think that tells us that Vecna isn't a god in the FR by either standard.
 
But what is "divine influence"? Having any worshippers at all? I mean demons and devils all have worshippers from every Tom, Dick and Harry cult, but that doesn't classify them as "gods" in those realms.

So either being a god is strictly a matter of the in-game religious people of a particular setting choosing within the fiction that "these are our gods"... or there's some sort of "out of game" number-of-worshippers level an immortal being has to have to be classified as one in a particular setting.

In either event... I think that tells us that Vecna isn't a god in the FR by either standard.
Another clarification: divine influence is the placeholder im using for what i remember being said. Eg something godly. But minor. And maybe something about the far planes also being mentioned. Thats all i remember.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
AO wouldn’t do anything unless Vecna was poised to succeed at some Die Vecna, Die level shenanigans. Heck, AO didn’t even step in to stop Acererak who would have massively imbalanced the Realms.
Aceraks not a deity so Ao has no influence over him.

Velsharoon is kind of Vecnas equivalent on FR.

I suppose they can do whatever but that's how it used to work.
 
Also there is a thing called an interloper god.
Aceraks not a deity so Ao has no influence over him.

Velsharoon is kind of Vecnas equivalent on FR.

I suppose they can do whatever but that's how it used to work.
I dont really think they are equivalent. Similar. Not equivalent. Vecnas most signifficant portfolio item is actually secrets. I know hes known by many other things too, but secrets is actually the big one.
 

Urriak Uruk

Explorer
So to answer gyor's original question, does the Hand of Vecna in Avernus make Vecna a god in the Forgotten Realms...

The short answer is no, at least no more than he already was.

When you look at how the gods are orgnized in the 5e D&D multiverse, gods can be worshiped across many different worlds in the material plane, though they usually "reside" in one of the Outer Planes, or at least a demiplane.

Forgotten Realms, despite mostly being 5e's "default setting," does not have many gods who have influence beyond that world. The big exceptions are gods like Tiamat or Asmodeus, the former of whom actually originated from Greyhawk. I'm not sure of Asmodeus' origins but he obviously has huge influence on many worlds.

For Forgotten Realms, the reverse is also true, that gods that originate from other worlds (like Vecna, who is from Greyhawk) have little influence on that world. By "influence," I mean worshipers. After all, if you don't have any worshipers on a world, you have no one to carry out your plans.

The Hand of Vecna being in Avernus has almost zero impact on the Forgotten Realms, as the holder of that object (Arkhan) is to my knowledge not from FR, and has the Hand on Avernus which is not part of FR (no Outer Plane is, there are all separate and distinct from any world on the Material Plane).

Now if PCs took the Hand, brought it back to the Forgotten Realms, and started a Cult of Vecna there using the hand, Vecna could become a Forgotten Realms game, at least for your table. But none of this happens in the book.

As for Exandria (the world of Critical Role) it being mentioned does make it official in a sense. As for its gods, it's kind of pointed out how many gods from other worlds do manifest there, albeit under different names and different styles of worship (differences in world being common from world to world). Vecna of course has cults there, as does the Chained Oblivion (Tharizdun), the Scaled Tyrant (Tiamat), the Spider Queen (Lolth), the Strife Emperor (Bane), the Dawnfather (Pelor), the Everlight (Sarenrae), the Lawbearer (Erathis), the Lord of the Hells (Asmodeus), the Cloaked Serpent (Zehir), the Allhammer (Moradin), the Knowing Mistress (Ioun), the Matron of Ravens (the Raven Queen), the Platinum Dragon (Bahamut), the Stormlord (Kord), and others.

Long story short, no Vecna is not really a Forgotten Realms god, but you always have the option to make him one. He'd appreciate it I'm sure.
 

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