Does this bug anyone else?

[Buttercup]

I can't support pirating of anything, whether it be game materials, computer games, or music. Wrong is wrong.

If I had a player doing this, I certainly would speak to them about it. In fact, this is a serious enough issue to me that I might very well ask the person in question to leave the game.

 

[buzz]

Buzz, I don't know how old you are, or how much you use the internet, but at least with people my age (I'm 18) this is very common (I study computer science at an university, and when, in college, the teacher asks who uses Kazaa (filesharing program) everyone raises his / her hand, out of 100+ people).

I'm 32, and I've worked in Internet-related businesses since 1996, i.e., since you were 12.

I understand that file sharing is common, particularly with people in your age group. Heck, I used Napster a bit before they went under. Granted, if I liked what I heard, I bought the CD, otherwise, I deleted the files.

I'd be bothered if you told me that I should stop using downloaded material. Not bothered, as in argue about it, but rolleyes and sigh bothered. If you'd just tell me to stop sending you pirated material, that's something I can understand, applaud even. The first would be telling me what to do, the second is just telling me what you think about it, which is a good thing if you feel uncomfortable.

Understood. I'm not really gearing up for a jihad against these guys. Just asking for opinions.

Of course, there's the Old Man Buzz part of me that wants to comment on why it is you don't seem to have a problem with piracy and how this attitude is related to your age group and your life experience, but that'd be pretty presumptuous. All I can say is, I woulnd't be surprised if your attitude changed once you're my age.

But if you support $500 piracy, why don't you support 10 books piracy?

I never said I "supported" any kind of piracy; I said I could "sympathze."

E.g., it's beneficial for me to know how to use Photoshop; it adds to my ability to earn a living. I don't really have $600 to spend on a single piece of software, however, so I'm tempted to grab a copy off of Gnutella, thinking that I'll end up buying it evetually. I haven't done this, but I'm admitting that, at that price point, it can be a tough decision to make.

RPGs, otoh, are nowhere near this expensive. RPGs are cheap. If you don't have $15 to buy a splat, that's your problem.

 

[sfgiants]

For whatever reason this bugs me also. It bothers me when I buy the BoVD and get over to a game group and someone has downloaded it off the net. Essentially I as a legal consumer is subsidizing an illegal activity. Ridiculous. I don't have Kaaza and will not. Why would I want to rip off people like Monte Cook etc? You could argue that the books are expensive...yeah right. Compare to the cost of a 2 hour movie. Also remember the more pirating the higher the cost. An ugly situation. Free choice is a right, but when companies start raising prices to the point that I can't buy them, I will be seriously peeved at pirates (I know it is only one part of the problem, but it is growing in size...)

 

[Darrin Drader]

First of all, I don't support piracy. Let me get that out of the way immediately. I don't have Kazza on my computer, I did have Napster, but there were only a couple albums that I downloaded in their entirety, and in both cases I purchased the album once I was sure I liked them. What this person is doing is clearly wrong because the company that is making them available has not been paid for their material.

On the other hand, had he purchased them, we would be in much murkier water. In most cases a steady gaming group has 1 or 2 people that have most of the RPG related materials. If this person had paid for the book and then printed off a few copies for use in-game, all that does is make it more convenient for everyone at the table to use the material. Were I to do anything of this sort however, I would collect the books from the players before they leave the house so that it doesn't become a piracy issue. If they decide to purchase the PDF and can prove that to me, and then decided that they would like to hang on to one of the copies I made, we might be able to work something out at that point.

Also, places like Kinkos generally will not question it if they are simply binding material that has already been printed. A lot of people have access to laser printers at work, so it isn't unusual to come in with a book that's already been printed. I've purchased, printed, and bound several PDF's in the past and as long as the company that does the binding aren't the ones breaking copyright laws, they usually don't question whether you have a legal right to the material you are binding.

(N.B.: I am firmly in the "gaming is an inexpensive hobby" camp. As far as I am concerned, gaming is cheap and RPGs are generally underpriced. They simply don't warrant piracy.)

I agree completely. The amount of money I've spent in the last 3 years on gaming materials is in the thousands. You have to pay if you want to play.

 

[Dalamar]

Me? I download D&D stuff that comes out of WotC, but that's because they come months late here in Finland. I want to use the material now, at some point (usually when it finally comes out), one of our group buys it. The only WotC D&D books our group hasn't yet gotten are Deities & Demigods (we do have Faiths & Panthoens and the rules overlap) and Silver Marches.
Sometimes I also grap a book that has an interesting name, but isn't one I would spend my money on (I'm in sixth-form and I'm tight on money) in any case. And then I eventually delete file because of disinterest at it.

Just my opinion, of course, but I think that what I do isn't really wrong, I just get my hands on the material earlier.

 

[hammymchamham]

I have one PDF of a work, and thats Masters of the Wild (which I downloaded 1 1/2 weeks ago). I thought Santa would bring me MotW, but he didn't. To the mall I go tonight! Someone in my group printed the spells from Defenders of the Faith. Downloading the product to view it and see if you want to buy it is one thing. But downloading it, keeping it, and not buying it is another.

 

[blackshirt5]

I sometimes download books, but only(PLEASE NOTE: this isn't some pitiable little defense ploy. I actually have every single books I've ever downloaded and found not to be a waste of space, paper, and time. the others are all deleted.) for the purposes of a) looking over before I bought them off the net(selection isn't the greatest around here, as far as game books go); or b) having a backup on CD, for when we go to this one guy's house to game, there isn't a lot of space in the gaming area, but he's got a kicky-fast computer, so we tend to pull up a few pdfs, and just run using them for reference.

That being said, I have NEVER d/led something available in payable pdf format; i.e., a Monte Cook product. That's just reprehensible.

I also refuse to download things for other people when I know they're not gonna buy the books.

The only things I print out off my computer for D&D is homebrewed, net documents, and character sheets.

 

[maddman75]

I do use Kazaa, in several ways. Downloading D&D books is not one of them. The only case that I'd dl a D&D book is if

- It was out of print and I couldn't find it elsewhere
- THe book I own got lost, stolen, or damaged.
- It would be handy to have the book in an electronic format.

Music I download all the time, then delete when I get tired of it. I really use it more like radio than anything else. When they stop interfering with my ability to put the data where I choose and colluding to keep CD prices high, then they can speak to me about morality .

I'll also use it to grab tv shows, such as when I miss an episode of South Park. I don't see this as signifigantly differnet than using a VCR or a Tivo.

As far as gaming, well I'm the DM and that gives me some leverage. If I don't own the book you can't use it. No, you giving me a copy you got off kazaa doesn't count. I'd definatly decline any pirated books.

 

[DM_Matt]

Downloading .pdfs to preview and evaluate them before buying them online is not materially different, in an abstract moral sense, from paging through them in a book store. Keeping them and not buying is of course a different story.

Also, I see nothing wrong (again from a moral perspective. I am not sure what case law has to say on the subject, if anything) with downloading a pdf that someone else made of a book that you own and can legally make a pdf of. It is pretty silly to say that everyone must perform that arduous process themselves beucase one cannot transfer something that it "for personal use" to someone who also had the right to posess that same item also "for personal use." No one winds up having anthing that they don't already have the right to have.

 

[buzz]

Downloading .pdfs to preview and evaluate them before buying them online is not materially different, in an abstract moral sense, from paging through them in a book store. Keeping them and not buying is of course a different story.

Also, I see nothing wrong (again from a moral perspective. I am not sure what case law has to say on the subject, if anything) with downloading a pdf that someone else made of a book that you own and can legally make a pdf of.

I have no real problem with either of these attitudes. Like I said about Napster, I enjoyed being able to d/l songs and then decide if I wanted to spend the money on the CD.

But, yes, using piracy to replace true ownership is tres lame. These game companies (including WotC, in some ways) are scraping by as it is. If you like a game, buy it. If you can't afford it, save your shekels or find a way to increase your earning power.