DOLLHOUSE #2:Instinct/Season 2/2009

[shilsen]

Really? I think that was the most plausible thing in the episode, and probably one of the most plausible things in the entire show.

Maternal instinct is some seriously low-level reptile brain stuff. You insert some stuff there and it wouldn't surprise me that it would take hold in a way that other programming would not.

I'd suggest you talk to more (or some) women about exactly how plausible that is.

 

[fba827]

The most interesting part of the episode (to me) was towards the end where she is forming as a character herself.
A new personality every episode makes her hard to relate to/enjoy/see her grow as a person. Plus, can you -really- feel empathy for her (such as when she is having her baby taken away from her) when we as the audience KNOW it's not real to -anyone- except her and she may as well be a crazy woman.

But when they show how the blank slate is growing, that is more interesting to me.

First season I could let it go because (in my mind) they were trying to show different personalities and skills that I assumed would later show up as her 'toolbox' of things she'd do in later seasons to 'unravel' the mysteries of the dollhouse... but we don't seem quite there yet (if we'll ever get there).

Also, the guy investigating the dollhouse -- who is sending him stuff?
I don't know why, but I'm guessing either Mellie (? is that her name - former November) or Ballard or Dr. Saunders.... but the later two seem obvious as choices since they have open hate, where as with Mellie they were going out of their way to say she is at peace with it all.

And his senator's wife,the way the actress portrayed her, there was a certain stiffness that made me think either she is not a good actress for this role OR she is a doll and therefore stiff on purpose.

 

[Fast Learner]

I'd suggest you talk to more (or some) women about exactly how plausible that is.

As a father of an adult daughter, an uncle, a cousin with 15 female cousins (some of whom are grandomothers), as a son with experience with is own mother, as a man with many female friends with and without children, all of whom I've had many discussions of motherhood and childrearing in my nearly three decades as an adult, and as someone who has taken many psychology classes and read literally dozens of books on psychology (though am not a psychologist), I'm pretty sure I don't need to talk to more women about it. I've never seen a human be more protective or ferocious than a human mother when she fears she's going to lose her child.

I take it you've talked to a bunch of women about it and have a bunch of counter-evidence, that most women have no problem losing their children or something?

 

[shilsen]

As a father of an adult daughter, an uncle, a cousin with 15 female cousins (some of whom are grandomothers), as a son with experience with is own mother, as a man with many female friends with and without children, all of whom I've had many discussions of motherhood and childrearing in my nearly three decades as an adult, and as someone who has taken many psychology classes and read literally dozens of books on psychology (though am not a psychologist), I'm pretty sure I don't need to talk to more women about it.

And all these people share a maternal instinct which is incredibly strong and similar?

I've never seen a human be more protective or ferocious than a human mother when she fears she's going to lose her child.

Having seen the way people respond when a new edition of D&D comes out, I'm guessing there are a whole lot of situations where people can be more protective and ferocious.

I take it you've talked to a bunch of women about it and have a bunch of counter-evidence, that most women have no problem losing their children or something?

Yes, I've talked to a lot of women about motherhood, and no, I wasn't saying that most women have no problem losing their children. I was saying that maternal instinct doesn't exist in all women, nor does it exist in the same way or to the same degree in all women. Hell, it clearly doesn't even exist in all mothers, considering how many women are abusive, neglectful or just plain indifferent to their children. And that's just focusing on the US. When you talk to and study women in other countries, you see that our definitions of maternal instinct in the US don't apply across all cultures.

To take the subject back to Dollhouse, I saw a pretty reasonable argument on another website yesterday which suggested that the maternal instinct explanation is just Topher being wrong about what's going on, which he has been earlier too. And it's pretty clear now that Echo is remembering parts of her past even when wiped (without which she wouldn't have been able to return to the house anyway). That still doesn't provide any reasonable justification for her being interested in a kid which wasn't even hers, but it's better than the super-maternal-instinct explanation. At least for me, since it clearly works for some people.

 

[coyote6]

I don't think it was "super-maternal instinct" -- I think it was messing with other portions of physiology via the mind-programming process FUBARed the whole thing. Probably Echo's evolving neurological state didn't help.

We still don't know a ton about Caroline's past, what led to her signing up as an Active. From past hints, it probably involved some sort of tragedy with her and her friend(s). I wonder if it involved a child, or at least a pregnancy; if part of Caroline's tragedy included something like that, I could see where echoes of that could end up warping her programming.

 

[Fast Learner]

I was saying that maternal instinct doesn't exist in all women, nor does it exist in the same way or to the same degree in all women. Hell, it clearly doesn't even exist in all mothers, considering how many women are abusive, neglectful or just plain indifferent to their children.

I agree that it's not the same in all women. That doesn't make the explantion BS, though, because it is very, very true in many mothers.