Double Weapons and Weapon Finesse

[Li Shenron]

The Power Attack feat mentions that you only get the -1 hit/+2 damage bonus if you are using the double weapon as a two-handed weapon.

I think the reverse would apply to Weapon Finesse: It would only apply when using the double weapon as a light weapon and one-handed weapon, and would only apply to the "light weapon" attack.

Good, this note that I had overlooked quite clearly states that PA would work on a -1/+2 when only one end is used (since all double weapons are 2handed), but I also think it implies that when both ends are used, it is possible to use PA and it will give -1/+1 on the main end (used as a one-handed weapon in 1 hand) and -1/0 on the secondary end (used as a light weapon in 1 hand).

Ok, so I feel stronger on my point 2) now.

 

[Ranger REG]

In 3.5, you don't take Weapon Finesse for individual weapons. You take the feat once, and it applies to all light weapons.

I re-iterate once again, a double weapon is physically NOT a light weapon.

It already have a better attack benefit than having to wield two one-handed weapons. You're just trying to find a loophole to get more out of it. If you're a dextrous character with Weapon Finesse, you might as well invest in a pair of light weapons.

Otherwise, create a feat to make quarterstaff a finesseable weapon.

In 3.5, I don't think it's as clear.

Then ask the Sage, not us, for official clarification.

 

[Caliban]

I re-iterate once again, a double weapon is physically NOT a light weapon.

Except when using it to make extra attacks, one end is treated as a light weapon, and the other as a 1-handed weapon. This is also applies to the Power Attack feat, why wouldn't it apply to the Weapon Finesse Feat as well, for the off-hand attack?

*shrug* It seems to be what is intended by the examples already given in the core rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It already have a better attack benefit than having to wield two one-handed weapons.

Except you can Power Attack with your off-hand if you're using two one-handed weapons. You can't if you're using a double weapon.

You're just trying to find a loophole to get more out of it.

I find that accusation offensive. I'm not playing in any 3.5 games, let alone using a double weapon in one. I'm not looking for a loophole - I'm interpreting the text.

-Hyp.

 

[Greybar]

And the Power Attack is going to be particularly effective either, or they wouldn't have taken finesse...(Finesse implying that their Dex is greater than their Strength).

I don't see why this follows. PA allows conversion of BAB to damage. As long as you have Str 13+ to take PA, whether your Str is higher than your Dex drops out of the equation. If anything, Power Attack and Weapon Finesse together in this fashion allows someone with high dex and moderate str to do more damage than their strength alone would allow. Since your high dex is contributing to your to-hit roll, you can afford to burn BAB on more damage.

john

 

[Ranger REG]

Except you can Power Attack with your off-hand if you're using two one-handed weapons. You can't if you're using a double weapon.

I can if I treat a double weapon as a two-handed weapon. Remember, a double weapon has two attack modes you can choose from: two-weapon and two-handed.

I find that accusation offensive. I'm not playing in any 3.5 games, let alone using a double weapon in one. I'm not looking for a loophole - I'm interpreting the text.

Then you are simply overinterpreting the text.

Sorry, but a double weapon is still physically a two-handed weapon, as indicated in the Equipment chapter. The prime benefit of a double weapon is simply the reduced two-weapon fighting penalties to attack rolls, nothing more. Other benefits include the option of wielding it as a two-handed weapon (and acquire double the benefit of Power Attack as with any two-handed weapon), and the advantage of having two hands wielding the weapon during a Disarm attempt.

 

[Darklone]

Though I do agree that the rules imply that the offhand end of a double weapon may be used with the advantage of Weapon Finesse, I would still doubt if it makes sense, ruleswise.

A double weapon is already a very versatile weapon, giving it more advantages is not necessary.

On the other hand, I am not sure how many doubleweapon wielders would have lower strength than dex as well as a spare feat, so I would probably simply go by the letters of the rule and allow it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I can if I treat a double weapon as a two-handed weapon. Remember, a double weapon has two attack modes you can choose from: two-weapon and two-handed.

Yup. And if you're using it two-handed, you can't use Weapon Finesse with it.

If you're using it two-weapon, you can't benefit from Power Attack with the off-end, because it's considered a light weapon when being used in that fashion. Is that overinterpreting the text? When the Power Attack feat, after saying it doesn't work with light weapons, specifically reminds you that a double weapon is treated as a combination of a one-handed and a light weapon?

Nobody's suggesting a double weapon swung two-handed should benefit from Finesse. Nobody's suggesting the primary end, treated as a one-handed weapon when fighting with both ends, should benefit from Finesse.

Only the off-end, which cannot benefit from Power Attack because it is treated as a light weapon, should benefit from Finesse... because it is treated as a light weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Wraithdrit]

I think smurf nailed it. Oh, and in case you want to jump down my throat again about looking for a loophole for my character, I'm asking on behalf of one of my players. I already made my ruling, and was curious for some discussion on what other people think. That is what this forum is for, discussion of differing opinions.

- Wraith