Draconomicron, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness

[Greylock]

I can imagine non-gamers buying Draconomican.

That's the highest praise I can think of for any WotC book.

No comment on the others.

 

[The Shaman]

Ferns and Fungus, A guide for vegan adventurers.

I am Jack's maniacal laughter.

I'm going to buck the trend here a bit: I didn't care for Draconomicon, but given that I'm not a fan of how dragons are handled in D&D, it would've been a tough sell out of the gate no matter the quality of the content. I've looked through it a few times, and every time it's gone back on the shelf. No interest.

It took me something like five or six thumbings-through of Libris Mortis over the course of about four or five months, but I finally found enough useful content for my games (both D&D and Modern) to make it worth my while. Call it my "willing suspension of cost-v.-content consideration."

Lords of Madness I haven't looked through yet, but I probably will. Despire the fact that I've never, in 27+ years of gaming, used a mind flayer or a beholder as a monster in one of my adventures (!), I would say there is still a better chance that I will eventually break down and buy this book than Draconomicon. Go figure.

 

[Knightfall]

I think a great book would be one that details animals and plants together in one book. How they interact together, and not only from a real world perspective. How would animals and plants change/adapt in a magical world? When do animals stop being animals and become magical beasts? All that good stuff. (This book could also include vermin, as well.)

Plus, the book would have more in depth rules for training animals (and maybe even low-order plants and vermin), as well as templates that alter plants and animals in unique ways. A Hybrid template that combines two creatures into one creature (i.e. horse-badger hybrid), an updated Anthropomorphic template that can be applied to not only animals but vermin as well, and new templates that change animals/vermin that work similar to how the Insectile Creature, Monstrous Beast, Multiheaded Creature, and Reptilian Creature templates work (D&D Savage Species). [A template that converts humanoids, monstrous humanoids, and magical beasts into low-order animals would be a nice, twisted idea to include as well (i.e. devolved dwarf-based dogs)]

The book would have special feats and new special attack/quality options that apply to only animals, plants, and vermin, as well as feats and prestige classes designed to enhance PCs so they can better interact with those creature types. Advanced rules for odd druid/ranger companions and sorcerer/wizard familiars (i.e. plant familiars) including optional feats/rules that let multiclass characters combine their animal companion and familiar class abilities into one creature (i.e. monstrous scorpion companion/familiar). Advanced rules for awaken animals, plants, and vermin.

Of course, there needs to be supernatural options such as new spells, magic items, psionics, animal/plant/vermin-based totems, and a few new deities that are dedicated to protecting these creature types.



Opinions? Concerns? Threats?

Cheers!

KF72

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I'm going to buck the trend and say that I liked Libris Mortis as much as I liked Draconomicon (which was quite a bit). I've already gotten more use from the former than I have from the latter ... undead are more common in my game than dragons are.

My players have been suitably frightened and creeped out by some of the new undead, particularly the tomb motes, skin kites, and murk. (I think the slay-mate is brilliant.) I used one of the adventure sites -- Nuchar's Tomb, I think? -- pretty much out-of-the-box for a good session-and-a-half of play.

I also think some of the feats and spells are pretty cool; my necrotheurge just picked up Fell Animate, which fits him perfectly, and Necromancy badly needed more mid-level spells.

I'm not at all into monsters-as-PCs, in either of my roles as DM and player, so those sections of the monster tomes are useless to me.

Anyway, I can't meaningfully comment on Lords of Madness yet, as I'm only about a fifth into it, but I'm enjoying it so far. It does annoy me that they changed the name from Codex Anathema, probably in fear of hearing from religious groups. They've broken the theme of books-named-after-books, and that bugs me.

 

[green slime]

I did not like Draconomicon.

It was far too specific to be useful. Sure the pictures where nice, and the layout. It came across to me as similar to the Complete Book of Elves, which bored me to tears (I don't want a book explaining the believe systems or other fluff). What I look for in books from WotC is hard content I can plug into my game. Dragons are just too rare, I suppose, in games I run (three, four, maybe five dragons in 22 years is a tad low...). The PrCs were bland, the feats uninteresting, how many players are going to take these feats/spells/PrCs? How many NPCs will I create with these Dragonfoe feats? Basically, not enough use for my game.

Libris Mortis on the other hand, slotted right in, wads of feats getting lifted directly into my Eastern Empire. Yes, the monsters were bland, but the general usefulness for much of the rest of the content was high. So I liked it.

Lords of Madness I have yet to see. The parcel from amazon is waiting at home for me

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I can imagine non-gamers buying Draconomican.

Of course, when they do, you get this:

So i happened upon this book in my searches for medieval art and manuscripts. This promised me in depth knowledge of dragons and other mythical beasts. As for the people who like this, I'm sorry to inform you that nothing in this book is real or accurate. At first i thought this was a work of fiction, but the plot was seriously lacking. Each character was introduced for only a page or two, then ignored for the rest of the book. This book is set up like a historical text, but there is no truth on its pages. I dont know what more i can say.

Hehe.

Anyway, the Draconomicon is an excellent product, but not personally that interesting to me given that I don't have much use for dragons. I can recognise its high quality, however.

Libris Mortis is both more interesting to me and less successful - I like undead, but not everything "works" and there are some disappointing errors (such as the summon undead spells still being unchanged from prior to the revision).

Lords of Madness . . . I'll just say it's pretty bloody ace.

 

[Ranes]

I flipped through The Draconomicon in the store. While it looked the business, I thought the content comprised material I'd like to do myself (ie the dragon stats) and material I'd never use (PrCs), so I gave it a miss. Maybe I'll pick it up one day. Libris Mortis I haven't really looked at or considered, so the only justification I have for replying to this thread is that I have bought and finished reading Lords of Madness.

Like Jeff, I wish they hadn't changed the name but - oh well. On the whole, I thought the book was very good indeed. I am, I confess, an aberration myself and insanity is my domain, so I felt quite at home reading it. One or two things bugged me. I actually found PrCs quite interesting (though I still won't use 'em), except for the Topaz Guardian (I think), which was extremely tiresome; I couldn't make myself read the whole entry. On the other hand, the chapters on aberrations did not disappoint, crucially, nor did the new spells and aberrant feats.

Some phrases were annoyingly over-used. For example, 'looks like nothing so much as...' should be red-penned the instant it's spotted in any future manuscript. Another thing I've become aware of in WotC books (and Paizo's publications) is that the American use of 'likely' as an adverb unsupported by prepositions grates on my Englishness. In almost every case, 'probably' would read better, regardless of which side of the pond you're on. But these are minutiae. Overall, I thought the book was an excellent source of campaign ideas.

 

[Gez]

I think a great book would be one that details animals and plants together in one book. How they interact together, and not only from a real world perspective. How would animals and plants change/adapt in a magical world? When do animals stop being animals and become magical beasts? All that good stuff. (This book could also include vermin, as well.)

Fantasy Ecology: The Book of Animals, Oozes, Plants, and Vermins could be interesting. It could also detail the animal-like Magical Beasts (like hippogriff or roc), while the smart Magical Beasts (like sphinxes and unicorns) could be lumped with Fey and Monstrous Humanoids.

 

[DragonLancer]

Draconomicon. A perfect sourcebook for the D&D game. It had everything I wanted it to have. The perfect blend of crunch and fluff. Theres game mechanics for those who want it, and then theres plenty of in game information on dragons for folks like myself. I can't recommend this book enough.

Libris Mortis. Its ok, but not a patch on Draconomicon. Its too much game info and not enough information. I really wanted this book to put a distinction in between Undead (Undead that were once living things.... Vampires, zombies, ghouls...etc) and Unliving (The just weird undead that don't really seem to have a living basis.... devourer...etc). More game info would have made it a better book.

Lords of Madness. I only finished this the other night but I really enjoyed it. I especially love just how Lovecraftian they made Aberrations to be with this book, even more so than they already are. An excellent blend of information and game mechanics.

So far, only Libris Mortis has been dissapointing, but then it wasn't so bad that I wouldn't recommend it to someone. If WotC keep the future race guides to this level I'll be happy.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Draconomicon was a lot of fun to read, but other than Dragoncraft items (which I love), a fang dragon, and a few draconic creatures, I haven't gotten much use out of it.

Libris Mortis was a lot of fun to read, but other than a few monsters I haven't gotten much use out of it.

LoM looks like it'll be a fun read, but I doubt I'll get much use out of it.