Dragon #295 in Today!

[Aaron L]

But look at the Players Handbook, it doesnt have stuff like that. The DMG has some, and the ELH is supposed to be a combo PH/DMG for epic characters, and I think they said their would have things like that in it. What you need is an Epic Level setting worldbook, designed from the ground up to have characters of 50+ in it.

Hmmmm, and Epic Level Setting. Doubt WotC would do it, but after the ELH becomes OGL, a D20 publisher could go crazy with it. Could be pretty darn spectacular.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

But look at the Players Handbook, it doesnt have stuff like that. The DMG has some, and the ELH is supposed to be a combo PH/DMG for epic characters, and I think they said their would have things like that in it. What you need is an Epic Level setting worldbook, designed from the ground up to have characters of 50+ in it.

Yeah, but the PHB is concerned with characters who begin with a very limited set of abilities. Even then, by the time the group is hitting higher levels, usually around 15+, alot of DMs are beginning to be overwhelmed by the huge proliferation of character and monster abilities. By the time the group hits 30th level, most DMs are going to be hard pressed to even keep track of all the character's abilities, let alone plan good adventures around them, the default dungeon crawl having long since fallen by the wayside. To my mind, a BIG section of the book is going to have to be dedicated to teaching DMs (and players too) how to create and, more importantly, closely manage an epic level campaign. That's the kind of info I want to see in an epic level teaser

 

[Black Omega]

I admit, I'm curious how the ELH will turn out. They've been giving glimpses of classes and items since that's the easy stuff to hint at.

If my present campaign hits Epic Levels the items and spells will be good to know, but group combats will be much rarer and most of what they'll be involved in will be politics, personal agendas and such.

 

[Darkcross]

Originally posted by mythusmage:
"What caught my eye was the article on dweomers you can put on your castle walls. Now that was a nice preview of an upcoming book."

Agreed. Initially, I wasn't too stoked about the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. But this issue has put it on my list of must-buys.

(Still not convinced about the Epic Level Handbook -- what interest I had is waning.)

-- Darkcross

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

But look at the Players Handbook, it doesnt have stuff like that. The DMG has some, and the ELH is supposed to be a combo PH/DMG for epic characters, and I think they said their would have things like that in it. What you need is an Epic Level setting worldbook, designed from the ground up to have characters of 50+ in it.

Hmmmm, and Epic Level Setting. Doubt WotC would do it, but after the ELH becomes OGL, a D20 publisher could go crazy with it. Could be pretty darn spectacular.

Wait a sec...Isn't that the Forgotten Realms 3e book?

 

[drnuncheon]

SHRUG. Maybe. But a book that purports to give "Epic" level gaming can and should include long sections on how to develop a campaign that incorporates weapons like Gungnir without that campaign descending into a farce of well muscled ego machines hurling nuclear bombs at one another. That kind of guidance is as much of a "tool" as a laundry list of new abilities is.

Sure. Now, which one is easier to put in a sentence? Which one is going to attract more attention in a magazine teaser? A concrete example, or a bland quote along the lines of "the ELH is going to contain plenty of gamemastering advice for dealing with characters at these levels"?

Besides, they've already said that. Look at Andy Collins' ELH FAQ:

Q: Will ELH include any DM advice?

A: Absolutely. ELH combines key elements of the Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, and Monster Manual all into one book.

I mean, really, what more can you say than that? To give anything concrete on the DMing advice front, you'd need an entire article, not a couple paragraphs in a one-page preview.

So far, the teaser releases I've seen have all revolved around "look how mighty this new item or power is!" After a while, that sort of thing just makes me shrug. I want to see a teaser that describes a playtest adventure or campaign. I want to see concrete examples of how the playtesters took all the tools from the ELH and turned them into at least a reasonable approximation of heroic myth or, at the least, a cohesive, internally logical campaign.

The teasers are like movie trailers: you only see the parts that have maximum impact for minimum time/space investment. DMing advice just isn't one of those things, while a new monster, magic item, or list of skill DCs is.

Just because it's not in the teaser doesn't mean that it's not in the book. What you're asking for above sounds like an entire article or a web enhancement.

J

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

The only thing that will matter to me, ultimately, is Psion's review.

 

[Claude Raines]

The only thing that will matter to me, ultimately, is Psion's review.

Bah! I'm going to buy it regardless of Psion's review. (Although I will be interested in reading it, especially as he will probably get the book before I do.)