D&D General Keys from the Golden Vault look through.

[FitzTheRuke]

Why on this good green Earth are you arguing about alignment in a thread about an adventure for a game that has largely eliminated the relevance of alignment?

I haven't been involved in any argument about alignment myself, but in defense of those that have (on both sides), I think its origins lie in the natural surprise (whether we like this aspect of the adventure book or not, I think it's a bit of a surprise) that a book about heists took the time to create a way to make sure that the participating PCs are not only allowed, but encouraged, to be good.

The purest, "by-the-book" following of the adventure keeps the characters in a very heroic light. I don't think that is all that surprising in itself (for one, it staves off any of the old "D&D's corruptive influences" arguments) but I think it still came as a bit of a shock that the reasons for ALL the heists in the books start from a heroic position.

Obviously (to me, at least), it would be easy enough to play it grayer. Honestly, it's probably harder to add goodness in than it is to take it out, so I understand why they may have chosen to write it this way.

 

[Clint_L]

GG review:

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think it's a bit of a surprise

Given that it's clearly strongly influenced by Mission Impossible, I don't think it's remotely surprising.

But that is a good example of the difference between fantasy morality and real world morality. The TV show was good fun, with it's clear good guys and bad guys, but in the real world, the IMF is a terrifying concept. The government enlisting civilian volunteers to carry out Black Ops, and "if any of your IM force are captured or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your..." highly illegal and morally dubious activities.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Given that it's clearly strongly influenced by Mission Impossible, I don't think it's remotely surprising.

But that is a good example of the difference between fantasy morality and real world morality. The TV show was good fun, with it's clear good guys and bad guys, but in the real world, the IMF is a terrifying concept. The government enlisting civilian volunteers to carry out Black Ops, and "if any of your IM force are captured or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your..." highly illegal and morally dubious activities.

Sure, but I think a LOT of people probably hear about a "D&D adventure about heists" and expect their characters to at least be "criminal with a heart of gold" and not outright "heroic" as the adventure presents it. (Obviously, the former is still plenty encouraged, as always).

I forget now, but I believe I was speaking earlier as to why alignment might be an understandable discussion when talking about this book.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The TV show was good fun, with it's clear good guys and bad guys, but in the real world, the IMF is a terrifying concept. The government enlisting civilian volunteers to carry out Black Ops, and "if any of your IM force are captured or killed, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your..." highly illegal and morally dubious activities.

Prepare to be terrified. (The subsequent book was even moreso.)

 

[Zaukrie]

Sure, but I think a LOT of people probably hear about a "D&D adventure about heists" and expect their characters to at least be "criminal with a heart of gold" and not outright "heroic" as the adventure presents it. (Obviously, the former is still plenty encouraged, as always).

I forget now, but I believe I was speaking earlier as to why alignment might be an understandable discussion when talking about this book.

See, this is why I don't make assumptions about how others play, because I'd never assume that.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

See, this is why I don't make assumptions about how others play, because I'd never assume that.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with how others play, it has to do with the heist genre.

 

[dave2008]

Overall, on topic, which, ugh.....

I think this is a very well written book. It isn't perfect, but I'm glad I own it. I'm much more likely to use most of it than most books I buy. I'm willing to answer specific questions (on the tiny chance anyone interested in the book hasn't given up after the last five pages of the same arguments we get from the same people every thread).

What, if any, other special rules or mechanics are in the book beside the "Suspicion" mechanic in Prisoner 13?

 

[dave2008]

That video review was very interesting. Some of the heists seem quite interesting. They could be easy to drop into another campaign.

 

[dave2008]

What, if any, other special rules or mechanics are in the book beside the "Suspicion" mechanic in Prisoner 13?

@MonsterEnvy and @Zaukrie , bump my own question because no one has answered it yet: any new mechanics?