[DRAGON #305] F-bomb dropped, Doc M fascinated.

[Mercule]

Agreed- to a degree. I have grown up in a pretty rough area where the f-word is used a few times every sentence.

To write a story about that area- I could get around the use of the language and still bring about the tone of the area, but it would not be true to the characters who live there. SD

True enough. There are some very valid reasons for including foul language.

There are appropriate venues for those stories (or whatever, it's not just fiction). Still, Dragon is not such a venue, IMHO.

 

[Friadoc]

I find the increasing frequency of the argument "all morality is relative to the individual" disturbing. Have you ever considered where that kind of philosophical argument ultimately leads?

Yes,

...it leads to people making their moral choices based upon their own thoughts, and their own cultures.

Now, in return, do you realize how disturbing your question can come across?

Morality is subjective, although this is my opinion it is one born out of reality.

All cultures do not have the same moral values, for good or bad, nor do they even all agree on right versus wrong and many wrongs were created under the umbrella of a right.

Anyhow, I'm not really wanting to get into any deep philosophical, or religious, or even spiritual debate here, it's just a matter of my opinion versus yours and how we're both allowed to live out lives as we see fit, regardless of whether they agree or not.

 

[jasamcarl]

I would like an explanation for how the negative connotations of profane words actually hurt anyone. Some say it promotes lazy speach. Getting beyond the issue of one person's lazy being another person's efficiency, how is this a moral issue and not a stylistic one. Why can it not be left to the reader to put it into context.

And as to the opinion that a Forum such as RPG.net has a greater degree of rude noise than here, could that perception simply be the result of one's assumption about the place of vulgarity and not the concepts/ideas being elucidated?

I'm waiting....

 

[Sagan Darkside]

I would like an explanation for how the negative connotations of profane words actually hurt anyone.

You want to know why the use of something profane is bad? Err.. ok. Is that like asking why doing something wrong is bad?

SD

 

[WizarDru]

I would like an explanation for how the negative connotations of profane words actually hurt anyone.

You can't envision how words can have emotional connotations to them? Just because you aren't offended if I call your mother a rude term for a woman who engages in a commercial transaction for sexual favors doesn't mean she doesn't or your father, for that matter. The same would apply to telling someone that they engage in sexual activities with their mother, an animal or that they engage in activities that they find offensive.

If you think that words have no power at all, and cannot cause someone emotional distress, I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise.

 

[jasamcarl]

You want to know why the use of something profane is bad? Err.. ok. Is that like asking why doing something wrong is bad?

SD

Of course, that lies on the assumption that the words don't just convey a negative, but they are a negative. I'm asking you to lift that argument out of the cyclical and give me a proof.

 

[jasamcarl]

You can't envision how words can have emotional connotations to them? Just because you aren't offended if I call your mother a rude term for a woman who engages in a commercial transaction for sexual favors doesn't mean she doesn't or your father, for that matter. The same would apply to telling someone that they engage in sexual activities with their mother, an animal or that they engage in activities that they find offensive.

If you think that words have no power at all, and cannot cause someone emotional distress, I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise.

The power of words are in what they symbolize, not in the words themselves. Some words carry threats of tangible negatives, i.e. the threat of being attacked, raped, etc. I would actually find it convenient if someone were to announce their intentions beforehand. But if I know my mother is not a whore, and I knew that no one honestly thought my mother was a whore, such words would just seem empty, yes. Understand?

 

[TeeSeeJay]

"f--- you" or "f--- off" or f---ing s---" are all misuses of the word. Think about it. Its like saying "twist you!"

yeah run off works as a construction but thats because it is a moving verb. f--- is not.

When I think about the actual image of what "f--- off" really means, I die laughing. "f--- away from here" is the connotation, even if the meaning is "to jhell with you" Its hysterical in that such an act would require lots of movement away from you.

The word is not a moving verb and should not be used that way.

It should be used as a normal verb if used at all.
Here is an example of the Gerundive:

"my roomates were f------ loudly all night and I couldn't get any sleep."


Aaron.

I don't think that the f-word means what you think it means. Sure, there's the Original Definition, but you can't be slavishly dependent on that. Language evolves.

Fact is, the definition of the f-word today is simply "a meaningless intensive" -- and as the old joke goes, it is the most versatile word in the English language.

A great reference book, by the way, is "The F-Word" by Jesse Sheidlower.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Of course, that lies on the assumption that the words don't just convey a negative, but they are a negative. I'm asking you to lift that argument out of the cyclical and give me a proof.

You may think words are symbols and meaningless by themselves, but the rest of society tends to disagree with you. That is why they are called "profane".

The N-word is a classic example of a word so emotionally charged and possibly damaging that it is considered profane.

If you have risen yourself above such things, then I hope you get the congratulations you are due. Just don't ask society to change to your standards.

SD

 

[Dinkeldog]

So that the "I hate Dragon" crowd have someone else to shoot at, I'll join in.

I really don't know what the issue is here. Martin is not attempting to recreate Lord of the Rings, so you can't argue that Tolkien is obviously a better author than Martin. Tolkien is obviously 1) a prude, but 2) more importantly wasn't attempting any realism in his story. It's a pure mythological fantasy. Martin is much more accessible and realistic in part because his characters use the same language would if, say we were shot or stabbed. Sexuality is needed in his stories because it exists in our lives, which is what he's created.

The difference, then, between Dragon and our boards is the general rating set. Dragon is about PG-13. We're about PG.