[DRAGON #305] F-bomb dropped, Doc M fascinated.

[LuYangShih]

I don't know how relevant this is to the discussion, but I've visited quite a few message boards in my time, and in my experience, the boards that disallowed cursing, profanity, and personal insults were always better than the boards that did allow such.

Like it or not, curses are generally negative, and have a generally negative effect, from what I've observed. Why that is so is irrelevant, to me. I, at least, do not enjoy the company of vulgarity.

 

[Mercule]

Heh, it is amusing you use those books as an example. They are rather clean in language, but they are certainly far from it in imagery. The opening scene with Dragosani alone has caused a number of people I know to close the book for good.

SD

Actually, that's pretty much the exact reason why I used the books as an example. One common argument is that you need the language to get the feel of the setting or to make things dark and gritty. If Lumley can evoke such a feeling without the use of foul language, it makes a very good case for foul language being unnecessary.

 

[techno]

It's all a matter of personal taste, be it subject matter or language, and I think a lot of people need to keep in that context.

I find the increasing frequency of the argument "all morality is relative to the individual" disturbing. Have you ever considered where that kind of philosophical argument ultimately leads?

 

[EricNoah]

Re: Thanks for the replies Eric and Henry

Thanks for the replies mods.

But I don't think I'm making myself clear. What's the difference between cursing in Martin's world or on ENWorld especially in great story hours like Sep's?

Son of Thunder

Russ runs EN World. He doesn't run George Martin's publisher's company. It's as simple as that.

If "Sep" wants to post his unaltered story hours with swearing, he can do that on his own website or make his own message board. But the requirement for posting them here on the boards is that they abide by the profanity guidelines we have here.

If George Martin were to start a story hour thread here, he'd also have to abide by those rules.

 

[EricNoah]

I find the increasing frequency of the argument "all morality is relative to the individual" disturbing. Have you ever considered where that kind of philosophical argument ultimately leads?

To people making their own decisions about what is right and wrong?

 

[Rugger]

Re: Thanks for the replies Eric and Henry

But I don't think I'm making myself clear. What's the difference between cursing in Martin's world or on ENWorld especially in great story hours like Sep's?

I think that Henry said it best... profanity does make barriers, and does show laziness...especially in online, social situations.

I read a ton of different messageboards, and this is quite honestly, the best of all of them.

Without profanity, and with strong moderation, these boards are dang-near the most civil place anywhere I've seen online. Just look at this discussion: it's remained civil, with minimal name calling, and is continuing to remain a compelling read.

Throw in the profanity, and it surely would have degraded into some sad flame war...

In Story Hours...hmmm....that raises an intersting point. Being literature, it seems that if it is appropriate and is used in character, that it should be allowed...perhaps with a warning at the beginning of the thread.

To those who are cancelling subscriptions and refusing to buy Dragon because of this, I have an honest question, that I do NOT want to offend with:

Is a single word reason enough to stop getting (IMHO) one of the best and cheapest game-aids around? One word?

As I said, I mean no offense, but I cannot personally understand this...does hearing one profanity on a specific television show make you want to cancel your Cable or Satellite account, when there is so many other positive things out there?

-Rugger
"I Lurk (ed)!"

 

[Sagan Darkside]

If Lumley can evoke such a feeling without the use of foul language, it makes a very good case for foul language being unnecessary.

Agreed- to a degree. I have grown up in a pretty rough area where the f-word is used a few times every sentence.

To write a story about that area- I could get around the use of the language and still bring about the tone of the area, but it would not be true to the characters who live there.

Lumley's later books in that series were more faithful to that thought. The hero of his last few books was pretty harsh with his tongue, but it made sense considering the character.

SD

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Re: Re: Thanks for the replies Eric and Henry

To those who are cancelling subscriptions and refusing to buy Dragon because of this, I have an honest question, that I do NOT want to offend with:

Is a single word reason enough to stop getting (IMHO) one of the best and cheapest game-aids around? One word?

I can only speak for me (though I cancelled a few issues back) - this is just one more step in a trend.

Profanity on the cover, disgusting ads, political rant in the editorial, and immature nonsense in articles (BOVD)- Dragon was not a magazine I enjoyed spending my money on. I don't buy "edgy" nonsense for a reason.

SD

 

[Zenon]

Re: Re: Thanks for the replies Eric and Henry

In Story Hours...hmmm....that raises an intersting point. Being literature, it seems that if it is appropriate and is used in character, that it should be allowed...perhaps with a warning at the beginning of the thread.

Nope. The mods have already said elsewhere in another thread that the profanity filters are for the whole board and cannot be set thread by thread.

Like Eric said, nothing is stopping anyone from getting their own site to post it on. Heck, some ISP accounts come with an amount of personal webspace.

 

[jester47]

I will edit my words here out of respect for eric's grandma.

I think if Joyce can use the words s---, f---, c--- and p--- in Ulysses and be considered one of the greatest writers of the 20th century, Martin and Dragon can use them in the works they publish, as long as they are used in the correct context.

I cannot think of any point where Dragon would need to describe such things and that if they had to, they could use more exacting and clinical language as thier publication is somthing of a technical journal.

As for words in stories, I think an author is free to use them as long as he does not misuse them.

As for the word tit, its a version of Teat. For some weird reason this word got thrown in the disrepectful to say category. I think it happened in the twentieth century from people being disrespectful to women. The other two are compound words, and I think should only be used in literatire if a character is being derogatory.

As for these boards, I think the enforced lack of profanity makes people think about what they say and attracts people who think first then write. I think this is needed to make the boards do what they are meant to do. The story hour is too conversational in its format (people can make comments) and to let up profanity there invites it to be let up in the propper discussion areas.

But then again I was raised by a professor of Anglo-Saxon, so these words are not vulger to me, as I know where they come from and how they are supposed to be used. Thus I am not imprisoned by those who are intimidated by the common vulgar misuse of such words and thus do not support their cencorship from society.

nuf said.

Aaron.