D&D 3.x [Dragon] #307 - 3.5 Changes: Some we know, some we don't...

[John Crichton]

I just wonder about the monsters with paralyzing attacks, will they likewise be given one save per round?
If not, it seems to penalize the player's spell user more.

From the gist of the article, it sounded like they wanted to make as many changes as they could to the "I'm going to get a bag of chips" syndrome.

 

[Numion]

Huzzah for fixing the polymorph. Savage Species would be half useless if people could just polymorph into a 'melee' powerful form for hours at time. At least in my group people morphed into Stone Giants at higher levels for the duration of active adventuring in the day. If that was possible, who would wanna be a real stone giant at ecl 19 or whatever?

 

[Agamon]

While I agree with John that Hold is not a "fun" spell, I don't think they're much useful anymore at their current levels. Maybe they should have just got rid of them...

 

[John Crichton]

While I agree with John that Hold is not a "fun" spell, I don't think they're much useful anymore at their current levels. Maybe they should have just got rid of them...

How is it not useful? If you take the party's most powerful fighter or barbarian out of the mix for at least a round or two, it takes that much longer for them to get in position to make full-round attacks. That's a good amount of damage prevented. It's just not as much as before. I think once playtested it will work out just fine. Some of the time, the character will burst free. Other times he'll be stuck there for almost the entire duration. That is in no way useless. Besides, we don't even know what level the spell will be yet as the article didn't specify and more changes can be made before printing.

Note: This is not pointed directly at Agamon but mostly as a general comment about the change.

 

[Iron_Chef]

What is the range of the new Polymorph? Touch or Close?

 

[Brown Jenkin]

How is it not useful? If you take the party's most powerful fighter or barbarian out of the mix for at least a round or two, it takes that much longer for them to get in position to make full-round attacks. That's a good amount of damage prevented. It's just not as much as before. I think once playtested it will work out just fine. Some of the time, the character will burst free. Other times he'll be stuck there for almost the entire duration. That is in no way useless. Besides, we don't even know what level the spell will be yet as the article didn't specify and more changes can be made before printing.

Note: This is not pointed directly at Agamon but mostly as a general comment about the change.

I can take a fighter out for a round with Daze as well and thats a cantrip. The new hold person is no more than a first level spell. Sleep is more useful. And yes sleep has a HD limit, but the save just gets easier for Hold Person as the opponent goes up in level. And you have the diference between an area effect and single target.

 

[darkbard]

ah, but retaining hold as a higher level spell, the save DC is inherently higher than that of sleep or daze or similar spells and thus has a much higher chance of having a longer impact.

 

[DonAdam]

and paralyzed characters are subject to coup de grace's

 

[Mort]

I think that a save every round is great idea for the hold spells.

From a “fun” perspective, it beats the old “sorry bob, you’re out of the fight for the next 10 rounds – nothing much you can do about it.” At least now Bob can struggle against the spell on his initiative (assuming he’s not coup de grace’d immediately which is still likely)

From a mechanics perspective – it simulates the fact that the person held is actually struggling against the magic and *gasp* maybe can actually do something about it.

The hold spells were always powerful for their level (any 2nd level spell that can completely knock out a high level fighter is pretty good). Now the spell can still stop the fighter but not for nearly as long and I think that’s an improvement.

 

[John Crichton]

I can take a fighter out for a round with Daze as well and thats a cantrip. The new hold person is no more than a first level spell. Sleep is more useful. And yes sleep has a HD limit, but the save just gets easier for Hold Person as the opponent goes up in level. And you have the diference between an area effect and single target.

Check the range on daze. If you are close enough to cast it, you are too close to the fighter. It's also useless on anything more than a 5th level character. If I was (say) 7th level I would be more than happy to toss off a hold spell at a safe range and know that unless the big guy with the sword makes his first save that my buddies will have a chance to hack him down a bit before he can act again. The others have already brought up my other points...