Dragon #357
- Thread starter Shemeska
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James Jacobs
Adventurer
Vascant said:
While I certainly could have written more (A LOT MORE) about Demogorgon, I only had a limited amount of space to write about him. Once Fiendish Codex I came out and its web supplement detailed the lower level demon aspects, I stopped including them in the articles; Demogorgon's low-level aspect, in particular, is in the Miniatures Handbook.
I'm not sure what you mean by short, thoguh; it's the same number of words as most of the other Demonomicons (about 8,500).
James Jacobs said:
I guess you said it best, one would expect more given the status and stature of Demogorgon. After all, he was the first and is the most powerful. In quire a few of the previous articles in this series they also listed either item qualities or actual artifacts directly tied to the subject however as I said this could also be tied up from additional material from the AP as well.
Keep in mind, this is just my opinion..
Think about it, according to sources he created the first Death Knight.. something that has raised havoc on more then one party and it didn't get a wink or a nod.
Got mine yesterday! Totally awesome! It's the first issue I've received where upon reading all of the articles, I have use for ALL of them in my games, even the Eberron one (the prestige class is very general enough to stick in any campaign involving Living Spells).
Loved Demogorgon and his CR 33 bad ass self...he's really scary. If it weren't for his HD, he'd have to be higher CR than 33 with what he can do.
BTW, loved the new vestiges. Of all the Tome of Magic's classes, the Binder has both potential and flavor. Shadowcaster could use some fixes, the Truenamer just...plain sucks.
Loved the Adventurer and Arcane Class Acts, the Divine one was interesting and I might use it, the Warrior one was meh...
However, I have a question on the Warrior Class Acts. The table says you can make a Balance check in place of a Strength or Dexterity check when being tripped at a -10 penalty to the roll? That's not in the PHB, what book was that use of Balance written in?
Loved Demogorgon and his CR 33 bad ass self...he's really scary. If it weren't for his HD, he'd have to be higher CR than 33 with what he can do.
BTW, loved the new vestiges. Of all the Tome of Magic's classes, the Binder has both potential and flavor. Shadowcaster could use some fixes, the Truenamer just...plain sucks.
Loved the Adventurer and Arcane Class Acts, the Divine one was interesting and I might use it, the Warrior one was meh...
However, I have a question on the Warrior Class Acts. The table says you can make a Balance check in place of a Strength or Dexterity check when being tripped at a -10 penalty to the roll? That's not in the PHB, what book was that use of Balance written in?
Razz said:
Complete Adventurer (p. 97)
Any chance you (or anyone) could give us some more information about what else is in this issue? How good are the feats/skill tricks in the Class Acts? Any interesting tidbits about the Defiled Creatures and Fur and Feathers articles which Paizo's summary says are in there?
I hope it gets to my FLGS soon as well, but they only get their deliveries on Wednesdays, so that's the soonest. Hopefully they'll get it together with Forge of War...
Syltorian said:
Thanks for the info on the Balance check one. I knew I saw that somewhere, I just couldn't remember where. As for the rest:
DEFILED CREATURES: There's the Beastwraith, an evil incorporeal undead spawned from nature's wrath turned vile. They appear when multiple animals are slain in a large region, constantly shift form into Small versions of albino animals (white wolf, white owl, white deer, etc.). This has no game effect, it's just flavor. They deal damage via incorporeal touch attack plus Strength damage. The Bloodlance is formed when a unicorn's horn is sawed off and it's left to live. Under the pain, agony, and horror of its ordeal it succumbs to demonic influences and temptations and turns into a berserk beast. It possesses a new horn, though this one is formed from the demonic influences and power it now possesses and has wounding and disease abilities. The Deadwood Revenant is an incorporeal evil undead form of a dryad.
Personally, I think the Beastwraith should've been a template. The Bloodlance is cool, but the Deadwood Revenant should've been, say, a template for undead fey, not just a specific undead for a specific fey creature. But it was good, still, overall.
FUR AND FEATHERS: New animal tricks, some for raptors only, new tools for animal handling, new alchemical items involving animal handling, and four new feats which require ranks in Handle Animal, and a bond with a creature (can be any creature you taught a trick to with Handle Animal). It has four new creatures, all magical beasts due to centuries of breeding programs done by specific creatures. Caustic Creepers are a breed of canine created by green dragons, Rockhounds are the same though bred by duergar, Shadestrikers are a predatory species of raptor that were bred by drow elves, and Shimmerwings are the same though they were created by beholders.
My comments, a group of beholders with trained shimmerwings = TPK. Heh. My only gripe is what's the deal with all these creatures in the article being evil in alignment? You'd figure they'd detail some evil (for NPCs and monsters for the DM) and some good (for PCs). Then again, maybe PCs have more than enough creatures to have as "pets" (blink dog anyone?)
CLASS ACTS: [ADVENTURER] Four multiclass feats. Elemental Stalker combines Ninja and Shugenja, the levels stack for the amount of ki power and maximum radius of the sense elements ability. Sacred Outlaw is a cleric/rogue combo, stacking the two for the purpose of turn/rebuke undead and sneak attack. Sacred Performer is bard/cleric, stacking levels for the amount of bardic music (not the type of bardic music) abilities you have and for turn/rebuke undead. It may have a typo, because it mentions summing Cleric and Bard for bardic knowledge at the end, but the feat only states the levels stack for turn/rebuke undead and number of bardic music per day. Swift Avenger combines Druid/Scout levels for skirmish damage and AC and for number of uses per day for wild shape (not the size or type of wild shape, however).
As for Skill Tricks: Critical Observation let's you make a Heal check at a -10 penalty against the target's AC in place of an attack roll for the purpose of confirming a crit. I think the -10 penalty makes the skill trick pointless, you'd actually have a better chance making a normal attack like everyone else with a penalty that stiff. Distracting Taunt allows you to use Bluff to disrupt an enemy's spellcasting. Pretty cool. Ecstatic Fervor lets you count the damage you take as half damage only for the purpose of making a Concentration check to finish the spell. Insightful Improvisation lets you make a Perform check at a -5 penalty in place of a Gather Information check once/day. Rhetorical Flourish lets you perform a Diplomacy check as a full-round action with only a -5 penalty.
[ARCANE] Alternate Class Features that replace a familiar: Aligned Spellcaster has you choose an alignment component you possess and your spells are cast with that component as the spell descriptor. If you're NG, you can pick Good and all your spells have the Good descriptor. If cast at creatures of opposing alignment, they're more powerful (and even more powerful against outsiders of opposed alignment).
Beleaguered Spellcaster is nice, if you take damage equal to 3 times your caster level from one attack, the next spell you cast is automatically maximized or extended.
Disciple of Boccob lets you qualify for item creation feats earlier and can craft magic items at +1 caster level
Eidetic Spellcaster lets you record spells in your mind instead of a spellbook
Impromptu Metamagic lets you choose a metamagic feat you have and cast spells with it without increasing the spell level a certain number of times per day.
School Mastery lets you choose a school of magic in which you cast at +1 caster level and gain a specific ability based on the chosen school and outlined in the description.
[DIVINE] Can have a plant companion instead of an animal companion. Statistics for a base plant companion are given, and they gain bonus HD, natural AC, and other abilities as you increase in level, as normal with druid/ranger. You can also perform rituals to grant the plant companion additional abilities, but once the ritual is performed, you then have to acquire a specific amount of levels for the ability to kick in.
[WARRIOR] Monk Guide. Meh.
Thanks for the review, Razz!
The Defiled Creatures sound very interesting. The beastwraith's cosmetic appearance seems rather strange, but I also like it. I really enjoy the idea of this article a lot. I hope they'll eventually come up with some more such corrupted creatures to make the forests out there a bit more interesting.
Perhaps in October, albeit without the magazine...
Fur and Feathers sounds great too. I'm quite a fan of House Vadalis in Eberron, so this article seems to be a great match. Pity to hear that the new creatures are all evil. Would it be difficult to just ignore that part of the stat-block, or are their actual abilities more or less obviously evil?
There are some interesting things in the Class Acts. Plant companions could be interesting, and I like multiclassing feats. Eidetic Spellcaster sounds nice, too... Regarding the Class Guides, I have a mixed feeling about them. They are practical and useful (if you can remember which issue had which class, or if you have the time to check Dragondex), but they aren't anything new and exciting.
Again, thanks a lot for the information!
The Defiled Creatures sound very interesting. The beastwraith's cosmetic appearance seems rather strange, but I also like it. I really enjoy the idea of this article a lot. I hope they'll eventually come up with some more such corrupted creatures to make the forests out there a bit more interesting.
Perhaps in October, albeit without the magazine...
Fur and Feathers sounds great too. I'm quite a fan of House Vadalis in Eberron, so this article seems to be a great match. Pity to hear that the new creatures are all evil. Would it be difficult to just ignore that part of the stat-block, or are their actual abilities more or less obviously evil?
There are some interesting things in the Class Acts. Plant companions could be interesting, and I like multiclassing feats. Eidetic Spellcaster sounds nice, too... Regarding the Class Guides, I have a mixed feeling about them. They are practical and useful (if you can remember which issue had which class, or if you have the time to check Dragondex), but they aren't anything new and exciting.
Again, thanks a lot for the information!
Shemeska said:
"The Ecology of the Kopru" a few issues ago offered an alternative origin for Demogorgon - that he is the child of two mothers, the Elder Evil Shothotugg and a being called Prukal who the kopru believe personifies the sky.
Now, this may be extremely unlikely (how would Demogorgon then be a tanar'ri?), and I'm more inclined to believe Iggwilv than the savage and superstitious kopru in matters regarding the Abyss, but it's out there for those who are interested. I like the "two mothers" angle because it implies that Demogorgon was once two separate beings, perhaps welded together by the unnatural experiments of the obyriths.
Syltorian said:
You can alter the alignments to simply Neutral, but the problem is they all have a fully fleshed background on their origins. You can alter the origins, but it'd be one heck of a task.
For example, it'd be hard to come up with an alternate background for Caustic Creepers. It's clear in their write-up that green dragons had something to do with them. They're actually canines with acidic blood (suffer acid damage when you strike one), have an ability called "bully" which grants them a bonus to attack rolls the more frightened a creature is, trackless step, immunity to acid, fear, sleep, and paralysis. Clearly green dragon creation. Their alignment is LE, of course.
The Rockhound actually states that they consider Duergar like gods.
Of course, with an Intelligence of 6, I think these creatures possess their alignment mainly because of not only just breeding by the race in question, but also the society they're raised in. I see no reason why a good PC can't rear, say, a Shadestriker as a hatchling and it's alignment alters from LE to LN or just N.
Razz said:
In some ways, that sounds as if they could be linked to the "Horrid" template from the ECS, and thus a creation of the Gatekeepers (wasn't their dragon-founder Vharaac a Green? or was it a Black? They wouldn't have to be LE then, though Horrid creatures tend to be evil, I believe (haven't got the ECS at hand, at the moment).
Other small question here... does the bully action give them a bonus to attack rolls the more frightened the Caustic Creeper is, or the more frightened their enemy is? I assume the latter, if the Creepers are immune to fear, but I'll just ask.
Sounds good, then. They'd have to be modified somewhat for Eberron anyway. Duergar and Drow cultures are rather different. Though I could see the latter breeding some kind of raptor. Creatures created by beholders sounds intruiging, though. Are they magical beasts themselves, or aberrations?
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