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5E Dragon Age Categories: The Poll!

What Dragon Age Category do you prefer

  • Option #1, Some old w/ some new: 9 age categories (see below).

    Votes: 7 17.9%
  • Option #2, Retro: 8 age categories (see below).

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • Option #3, Classic: 12 age categories (see below)

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • Option #4, Neo: 5 age categories (see below)

    Votes: 9 23.1%
  • Option #5, Modern: 4 age categories (see below)

    Votes: 9 23.1%
  • Option #6, Modern Twist: 4 + 4 (see below)

    Votes: 4 10.3%
  • Option #7, Retro Twist: 8 + 1 (see below)

    Votes: 10 25.6%
  • Option #9, Other (please explain)

    Votes: 3 7.7%

  • Total voters
    39

TheBoredGM

Beneath our modern banality, we're just savages.
Dragon Age Category Age in Years CR
0 (Egg)GestatingBase -2
1 (Wyrmling)0-5Base
2 (Very Young)6-15Base +2
3 (Young)16-25Base +4
4 (Juvenile)26-50Base +5
5 (Young Adult)51-100Base +7
6 (Adult)101-200Base +8
7 (Mature Adult)201-400Base +9
8 (Old)401-600Base +11
9 (Very Old)601-800Base +12
10 (Elder) 801-1,000 Base +13
11 (Ancient)1,001-1,200Base +14
12 (Wyrm)1,201-1,600Base +16
13 (Great Wyrm)1,601-2,000Base +18
14+ (Older Dragons, Gods) 2,001+Base +20 or higher, plus Mythic
You're welcome.
 
Last edited:

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dave2008

Legend
Dragon Age Category Age in Years CR
0 (Egg)GestatingBase -2
1 (Wyrmling)0-5Base
2 (Very Young)6-15Base +2
3 (Young)16-25Base +4
4 (Juvenile)26-50Base +5
5 (Young Adult)51-100Base +7
6 (Adult)101-200Base +8
7 (Mature Adult)201-400Base +9
8 (Old)401-600Base +11
9 (Very Old)601-800Base +12
10 (Elder) 801-1,000Base +13
11 (Ancient)1,001-1,200Base +14
12 (Wyrm)1,201-1,600Base +16
13 (Great Wyrm)1,601-2,000Base +18
14+ (Older Dragons, Gods) 2,001+Base +20 or higher, plus Mythic
You're welcome.
I not planning on anything over 12 age categories at the moment, and based on the poll likely fewer.

Also, what are you using as your "base"
 


TheBoredGM

Beneath our modern banality, we're just savages.
Wyrmlings.
I not planning on anything over 12 age categories at the moment, and based on the poll likely fewer.

Also, what are you using as your "base"
The same concept as PF's Bestiary 4. It saves space. Basically a template for a given Dragon type.
Screenshot_20-35-28.jpg
 

NotAYakk

Legend
The advantage of the age bands is that you have way, way less work to "just pick up a dragon".

Having bolt-on bits that let you boost the CR of the beasty helps, but I don't think I'd want building from wyrmling to great wyrm to be just bolt on bits.

And in 5e, you don't need a different monster every 2 CR because the power curve isn't that steep.
 

TheBoredGM

Beneath our modern banality, we're just savages.
And in 5e, you don't need a different monster every 2 CR because the power curve isn't that steep.
Actually, that's why I'd argue you need that. Each monster doesn't need a full stat block built because then you'd have half the book full of dragons. They are outlined for deeper monster variety, and progression. In case you need a slightly higher challenge.
Power curve needs to be steeper anyway.
 

dave2008

Legend
The same concept as PF's Bestiary 4. It saves space. Basically a template for a given Dragon type.
It funny how you always default to PF. The concept started in 2e and PF got it from 3e/3.5e of course. It is just that dragons are done differently in 4e and 5e. I am not planning to do a chart like this as I prefer to have a whole stat block instead of a reference chart to make my dragon.
 

dave2008

Legend
Actually, that's why I'd argue you need that. Each monster doesn't need a full stat block built because then you'd have half the book full of dragons. They are outlined for deeper monster variety, and progression. In case you need a slightly higher challenge.
Power curve needs to be steeper anyway.
I think @NotAYakk point is that you have fewer well defined categories (full stat blocks) and then pieces that can be add (bolt on bits) that can adjust a particular dragon. I think I prefer that method too, but I will see how the poll comes out.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Shouldn't the ages you know mean something?

A wyrmling dragon is basically a intelligent monster. They area bout mentally as smart as human children with the higher tier dragons being like child prodigies and the lower tier ones like dumb kids.

A young dragon is when all dragons have at least matched or surpassed the minds of the most basic mortals of decent education... maybe. They have not experienced the length of life to truly feel about time. Young dragons are much like humans in dragon bodies.

Adult is when a dragon has full control of all their dragon aspects. However this is just recent and they are just now deciding on what they are doing with their life.

Mature/Old dragons have spent enough time in one place and stopped fighting foes actively enough to start developing their inner sorcery full.

Elder dragons have implemented the basis of their long term plans. They have created a permanent lair or two and fully remodeled them. Elder dragons have minions and connections that are more that simple hobbies and trophies but items of worth.

Ancient dragons is where few dragons get to after they have completed their main goals in life. This is where some dragon get bored and sleep.

Wyrms are bored old lizard kitties.


1Wyrmling
2YoungUnlocks Multiattack
3JuvenileUnlocks Frighting PresenceMay start hording. Acts like a mortal.
4Young AdultUnlocks Legendary ResistanceCan lay eggs
5AdultUnlocks Legendary Actions and basic MagicCan make special lairs
6MatureUnlocks Full Sorcery and ElementalismMight support organizations, causes, and minions fully
7OldUnlocks Elementalism and some lair actions
8ElderUnlocks all liar actionsHas fully upgraded Permanent lairs
9AncientStops reproducing
10Wyrm
 


dave2008

Legend
Shouldn't the ages you know mean something?

A wyrmling dragon is basically a intelligent monster. They area bout mentally as smart as human children with the higher tier dragons being like child prodigies and the lower tier ones like dumb kids.

A young dragon is when all dragons have at least matched or surpassed the minds of the most basic mortals of decent education... maybe. They have not experienced the length of life to truly feel about time. Young dragons are much like humans in dragon bodies.

Adult is when a dragon has full control of all their dragon aspects. However this is just recent and they are just now deciding on what they are doing with their life.

Mature/Old dragons have spent enough time in one place and stopped fighting foes actively enough to start developing their inner sorcery full.

Elder dragons have implemented the basis of their long term plans. They have created a permanent lair or two and fully remodeled them. Elder dragons have minions and connections that are more that simple hobbies and trophies but items of worth.

Ancient dragons is where few dragons get to after they have completed their main goals in life. This is where some dragon get bored and sleep.

Wyrms are bored old lizard kitties.


1Wyrmling
2YoungUnlocks Multiattack
3JuvenileUnlocks Frighting PresenceMay start hording. Acts like a mortal.
4Young AdultUnlocks Legendary ResistanceCan lay eggs
5AdultUnlocks Legendary Actions and basic MagicCan make special lairs
6MatureUnlocks Full Sorcery and ElementalismMight support organizations, causes, and minions fully
7OldUnlocks Elementalism and some lair actions
8ElderUnlocks all liar actionsHas fully upgraded Permanent lairs
9AncientStops reproducing
10Wyrm
I agree with your concept, just not the execution ;) I want to determine the # of categories and then determine what they mean and what attributes the dragons get.
 

dave2008

Legend
it had all the 2E ones but Great Wyrm was followed by Ancient and then Legendary. The last category was what the dragon overlords like Malystryx were. I think iirc Malys was over 400 feet with a 500 feet wingspan.
FYI, what was called "Ancient" in 3e (and my chart) was called "Venerable" in 2e. So they didn't have two "Ancient" age categories - just wanted to clarify.
 



Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I agree with your concept, just not the execution ;) I want to determine the # of categories and then determine what they mean and what attributes the dragons get.

I can get that. Either way works.
The only drawback of Categories first is the temptation to "check grids and fill boxes". I don't see the point of having 2 different dragon stat blocks of same things but at different levels. The dragon age categories should mean something and it should feel organic and not forced.
 

TheBoredGM

Beneath our modern banality, we're just savages.
Shouldn't the ages you know mean something?

A wyrmling dragon is basically a intelligent monster. They area bout mentally as smart as human children with the higher tier dragons being like child prodigies and the lower tier ones like dumb kids.

A young dragon is when all dragons have at least matched or surpassed the minds of the most basic mortals of decent education... maybe. They have not experienced the length of life to truly feel about time. Young dragons are much like humans in dragon bodies.

Adult is when a dragon has full control of all their dragon aspects. However this is just recent and they are just now deciding on what they are doing with their life.

Mature/Old dragons have spent enough time in one place and stopped fighting foes actively enough to start developing their inner sorcery full.

Elder dragons have implemented the basis of their long term plans. They have created a permanent lair or two and fully remodeled them. Elder dragons have minions and connections that are more that simple hobbies and trophies but items of worth.

Ancient dragons is where few dragons get to after they have completed their main goals in life. This is where some dragon get bored and sleep.

Wyrms are bored old lizard kitties.


1Wyrmling
2YoungUnlocks Multiattack
3JuvenileUnlocks Frighting PresenceMay start hording. Acts like a mortal.
4Young AdultUnlocks Legendary ResistanceCan lay eggs
5AdultUnlocks Legendary Actions and basic MagicCan make special lairs
6MatureUnlocks Full Sorcery and ElementalismMight support organizations, causes, and minions fully
7OldUnlocks Elementalism and some lair actions
8ElderUnlocks all liar actionsHas fully upgraded Permanent lairs
9AncientStops reproducing
10Wyrm
Interesting.
I didn't put special abilities into my own chart, it would be too big.
 

dave2008

Legend
I can get that. Either way works.
The only drawback of Categories first is the temptation to "check grids and fill boxes". I don't see the point of having 2 different dragon stat blocks of same things but at different levels. The dragon age categories should mean something and it should feel organic and not forced.
I agree completely. There will be a progression through the ages without a doubt (another reason I want to keep the list small). I also want the different types of dragons to feel different and not all be the same (I am looking at you MM).
 

dave2008

Legend
Interesting.
I didn't put special abilities into my own chart, it would be too big.
well unless you want to create a chart for all 10 types of chromatics and metallics, I wouldn't do it. Each type of dragon should be unique IMO.

That is the problem with a big chart. At some point it becomes unwieldy and it just easier / better to have individual stat blocks.
 

Actually I am not fond of the dragons in the MME. He really didn't so anything interesting with them IMO. I will be posting my own designs on these forums (5e Monster Updates), I have drafts of the Elder, Ancient, and Great Wyrm Red dragons up, but I will update them after this poll.

When it comes to MME, he was just filling in age categories, so he couldn't make those more interesting than the default MM ones, or it would beg the question - why are young adult dragons more mechanically interesting than adult dragons? So the young adult, mature adult, and the juvenile (which is in MME2) are perfectly fine for what they are in comparison to the official dragon age categories. Now, he could have alternatively spiced up the default MM age categories with some extra powers, but that's a different story. And he's implied that he may do a MME3 in the near future, which could include such variants.

So, if we include the MM age categories, and the MME and MME2 categories, that makes seven, so all we really need now (in my opinion of course) is a great wyrm age category with mythic actions for the most powerful and feared dragons in existence. So, for me (and for Dick Van Patten - I'm really dating myself here), eight is enough.
 


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